Hermann Göring's Rings

[Johnnyrocket]

Early close-up of a Göring ring.

Johnny R.

[Johnnyrocket]

Does anyone know what the outcome of the Alexander Autograph auction on the late John Lattimer Göring ring auction sale?

Johnny R.

[Johnnyrocket]

The Lattimer/Göring ring is still available. This is according to the consignment agency Alexander Autograph.

Johnny R.
8/29/10

[Johnnyrocket]

Here is another design version of Göring's "Coat of Arms".

Johnny R.

[Johnnyrocket]

FYI:

I happen to run across this Göring ring—possibly the one he wore in many period images.(?)

This is from a Historical Sale of Military items:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/59679528/museo-de-guerra

Johnny R.

[Johnnyrocket]

Nice close-up of the Zeitner Logo Hallmark.

Johnny R.

[just]

Hello Johnny
these are not imperial eagle stamp, but Peter Bruckmann & Sohne stamp
the second (crescent/crown/800/eagle) is 1910-1930 period
cordially
Didier

[MassHole]

Goering inside.jpg

Goering face.jpg

[

[MassHole]

Johnny i posted a pic of inside and face of ring, it is the best images i could get w/ a shaky hand and cell phone camera. i am looking for someone who has a macro lens on a real camera so i can submit crisp pics to show detail. notice the ring around the Zeitner mark and on the tale of the Z is flared, from what i know that shows a true Zeitner mark, most (even high quality repro's) don't have the circle around the Z or the flared tale.

[MassHole]

Lattimer, who was a physician who attended Göring and his fellow defendants at Nuremburg, obtained the ring from California militaria Roger Steele in September, 1969. On the envelope in which he enclosed the ring, Steele notes: "<I>Purchased just yesterday from a chap in nearby Burbank...<P>". A week later, Steelewrote Lattimer adding little more information: "...<I>there is nothing more by way of information I can provide you with regarding the hat and/or ring...<P>", and a few weeks later he adds that he only has "<I>third hand<P>" information. However, a third person, apparently a friend of Lattimer, sent him a 1969 two-page photocopy from "<I>MILITARIA The Military Collector's Magazine<P>", Vol. I, No. 4, specifically the classifieds page, in which one "<I>B. L. Liberman<P>" in Burbank offers exactly the same ring Steele sold to Lattimer. To thicken the plot, some time after Lattimer purchased this ring, copies turned up on the market, we understand perhaps twelve in number, likely attributed to Steele. One prominient collector has sent us images of his ring, as well as an idential ring sold several years ago in New Zealand, which was purported to be teh "original" Göring signet ring. As far as we can determine, the collector's ring and the New Zealand ring bear <B>identical<P> hallmarks in shape, design and location to each other. The ring we possess bears hallmarks in <B>different<P> positions, with the most notable difference being that of the ring's designer, Prof. Herbert Zeitner. While the Zeitner hallmark in the copies bears no rings about the "Z", our bears the two circles, and the bottom line in the "Z" flares at its termination, as his correct hallmark should. We have not found a single forged Göring ring that bears this correct hallmark. The ring is in excellent condition, bearing some slight wear only from Lattimer's having worn it on occasion, sold with the Steele correspondence and the Militaria copies. Available for inspection on request.

Would appreciate any and all comments!

Bill Panagopulos
President, Alexander Autographs, Inc.
...and a fellow collector!

[Johnnyrocket]

Here are some further thoughts on this tread subject:

What is strange about these rings is that of the four rings pictured here—the Zitner logo is positioned differently on two of the rings and the "serifs" (ends) of the "Z" (on two of the rings) are not flared out (?).

I have no idea why they are that way. I have no idea who or what would be the criteria to determine any original ring here, if an original ever existed. The only provenance of any of these rings only trace the origin back to the infamous reproduction master Roger Steele from the early 60's in California. The only evidence that I have—is from another military forum posting by W. C. Stump (a well known early collector in the military memorabilia field) that had mentioned this type ring—many years ago. In his forum posting he mentioned that a ring of this type/design was accounted for and or logged-in as part of the inventory/listing of Göring's belongings/possessions he had at the time of his surrendered at the end of the war.

If these rings are indeed 14K gold (as the European 585 mark indicates) and on-a-good-day—you might get anywhere between $300—$1,000 (?). It's basically what anyone is willing to pay. I've also noted that the quality of detail on the front/face of these rings are basically the same on all the rings of this type/design that are posted on this Forum thread.

Johnny R.

[Johnnyrocket]

FYI:
I thought that since we are talking about "European Gold" grading on these rings...that I would post some further information on the subject.

GOLD CARAT or KARAT (EUROPEAN)

24kt or Pure Gold has content of 99.9% GOLD .999 Fine
22kt—91.7% Gold --- Stamped 917
20kt—83.3%
18kt —75% Stamped 750
14kt —58.5% Stamped 585
12kt—50.0%
10kt —41.7% Stamped 417
9kt —37.5% Stamped 375
8kt —33.3%
Silver— 9.25 Stamped 925 (Sterling)
Silver—9.99 Stamped .999 (Fine or Pure)
Platinum—PLAT, 950PT, 950 PLAT, 900PLAT 10%IRID

Johnny R.

[MassHole]

thats exactly what i thought was strange too Johnny? if you look at the hallmarks on the rings you posted the marks are in different positions then the images me and Bill (alaxander autographs) posted, the Zeitner logos on our rings match the Zeitner hallmark you also posted (not of Görings ring, just an example of the Zeitner mark) it has the ring around the Z and the flared tail on Z? its one of those things that will bother me for life, no way to prove which is original? but the hallmarks on mine and Alaxander autographs (supposedly the Lattimer ring) are exactly the same obviously there can only be one original. thanks for time looking at it, as im a history guy this topic i could talk about all day haha

[Johnnyrocket]

Another thing that I have noticed on the rings in question here—is the fact that the reverse of the rings have many small pitted areas (air holds?) in the gold casting, which tells me that the production of the rings were not produced under quality circumstances. This is something that I'm sure Göring would not have tolerated, it certainly would not meet his standard for quality —and we all know his taste in Jewelry was extremely demanding. If you look at known high-quality (state rings— i.e. Honor Ring of the German Film Industry, "Ehrengabe" Honorary German Citizen Ring ) rings of this period—they have none of these tell-tale markings that would represent poor manufacturing. We all know that German artisans were well known for their craftsmanship and attention to details.

Another thing that I have notice, is that the face of the rings in question is not as detailed as they (in my opinion) could be.

Knowing Göring's love for craftsmanship—they all look like they were produced again from a bad mold or casting from something else. This type quality I find hard to imagine Göring tolerating.

Johnny R.

[Johnnyrocket]

According to historical references Göring wore a european size approx. #23 ring size (equivalent USA size #13) which is huge, I guess this is why the Germans called him the "Big Boy" among other things...so I assume the original ring (if existed) would have to be this size.

Johnny R.