Fisherman's Cap?

[ernestmt]

During the 1920s, Sun Chuanfang was leader of the "Five-Province Joint Forces" in southeastern China. His uniform consisted of a distinctive type of headgear, known colloquially as the "Fisherman's Cap". This was reportedly modelled on headwear common amongst fishermen in SE China - which anyone with some sense of Chinese military history knows to be impossible. What are the origins of this hat, and does it have a proper European name? Many thanks!

[YC Chen]

Hello,
There are lots of photos(I think more than 10) showing soldiers wearing such caps in the thread "the war in pictures", and there's also one photo in the thread "Shanghai 1927", all in this section. However maybe it will take you some time to find them out(sorry I'm too lazy to post some links for you)...
I have been trying to find out some accounts on the real origin of this kind of caps but without success. However I did once find an interesting account on these caps, it is said that after a battle in 1927 or 28(can't remember which battle) many Sun's soldiers surrendered and joined the NRA. They cut off the back part of the rim of their "fisherman's caps"(only left the front part) and wore red-white-blue ribbons on their collars to prevent misidentification by other NRA soldiers.

[YC Chen]

One of the photos, newly posted by Oirob, can be seen here: viewtopic.php?f=101&t=146665&start=345

[YC Chen]

Hello,
There are lots of photos(I think more than 10) showing soldiers wearing such caps in the thread "the war in pictures", and there's also one photo in the thread "Shanghai 1927", all in this section. However maybe it will take you some time to find them out(sorry I'm too lazy to post some links for you)...
I have been trying to find out some accounts on the real origin of this kind of caps but without success. However I did once find an interesting account on these caps, it is said that after a battle in 1927 or 28(can't remember which battle) many Sun's soldiers surrendered and joined the NRA. They cut off the back part of the rim of their "fisherman's caps"(only left the front part) and wore red-white-blue ribbons on their arms to prevent misidentification by other NRA soldiers.

I checked that account again last night and found that it referred to this kind of caps only by "broad-brim caps used by Sun's army"("孙传芳军使用的阔沿军帽"). So it's possible that this kind of unique caps never got a proper name even in Chinese.
The source of it is the "Witness' account on the Northern Expendition of the NRA"(国民革命军北伐亲历记), published in 1994.

[ernestmt]

陳兄

Thank you very much for your informative responses. I am beginning to think that the Sun Chuanfang hat was simply an ordinary Fedora or Homburg with its brim folded up on the sides. The image here clearly shows that folding technique differs from person to person, resulting in various forms of visors. I am slightly confused by your description that they "cut the back of the rim", would you elaborate slightly on that?

[YC Chen]

" I am beginning to think that the Sun Chuanfang hat was simply an ordinary Fedora or Homburg with its brim folded up on the sides. "
Yes I think so, maybe something like a Homburg hats with slighly broader brims. Sometimes when I see some of my elderly neighbours wearing Homburg hats with the brim in the back folding up, I think "It do look like Sun Chuanfang's caps".
For "cut the back of the rim", there's an explaination in the original article: "(after that)their caps looked a bit like hunting caps(鸭舌帽)". In fact, without a picture, I also cannot tell what they looked like when the rear brim was cut off.

Maybe you'll be more clear seeing part of the original article:

[oirob]

陳兄

I am beginning to think that the Sun Chuanfang hat was simply an ordinary Fedora or Homburg with its brim folded up on the sides

I also think these are ordinary felt-hats and not a “special cut”. It’s just a matter of how to wear them. Maybe they just wanted them to look more military or provide a larger field of view.
The look reminds me a bit of the hats that were used by the Italian mountain troops “Alpini”… but this is probably a coincidence.

cartolina-reggimentale-1918-1943_divisione-tridentina[1].jpg

Alpini_1918.JPG

[oirob]

Here some more photos to compare the different styles:

Shorter (cut off?) brim:

Corbis-HU029504[1].jpg

Larger brim sketchy foldet up:

Corbis-BE032593[1].jpg

folded up and straight brim:

Corbis-U378859INP[1].jpg

[YC Chen]

Hello,
Thank you very much for digging out these photos! The first photo do look like cut-off brim.
The mountain gun is the famous "Shanghai Krupp" 7.5cm mountain gun. The third photo seems to show a soldier with a cap without the brim folded up. Can anyone identify the small mortar? Brandt?