Need ID Chinese artillery

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby YC Chen » 19 Jan 2013 16:07

Better than Japanese mortars, see here:
viewtopic.php?t=16048

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ain92
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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby ain92 » 03 Feb 2013 19:37

Hello Chen. Could you check the identification of two 120-mm mortars?
This one is in the US Ordnance Museum looks like Type 331:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chinese_120mm_mortar1.jpg, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chinese_120mm_mortar2.jpg.
This one in the Batey ha-Osef Museum looks like Type 55 (a copy of PM-38):
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mortar-batey-haosef-3-1.jpg, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mortar-batey-haosef-3-2.jpg.
With best regards, Ilya.

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby YC Chen » 04 Feb 2013 05:12

Hello,
Yes I think the first photo is a Type 331, so the 3rd surviving example around the world :D . Interestingly the Americans label it as a "mortar of Soviet origin". Maybe this was among those surplus war materials that were supplied in huge quantities to Vietnam.

For the mortar in the Batey ha-Osef Museum, if it really is a Chinese mortar then it would be a Type 55. I don't know how to tell a Type 55 from a PM-38.

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Mysterious 15cm howitzer

Postby YC Chen » 28 Mar 2013 03:06

Hello all,

This howitzer is on display in an artillery exhibition hall in my city. I have no idea what this could be, have never seen anything like it.

The introduction plate beside this gun is misplaced(it's an introduction of another gun). Perhaps the exhibition hall staff also have no idea what it is.

Any idea what it is? Maybe the mysterious Jin made 15cm howitzer(named mentioned in some memoir articles, but detailed information unknown), or maybe some lesser-known imported gun?
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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby nuyt » 28 Mar 2013 08:32

Very interesting!
IS nothing writtten on the breechblock?
Bears all the hallmakrs of some 1920s Rheinmetall design, looks like an upgrade of the sFH13 along the lines of the equally mysterious 10,5cm light field howitzer shown in Reichswehr service.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... e+front%21
Excellent find! Where is the weapon located?
Last edited by nuyt on 28 Mar 2013 08:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby nuyt » 28 Mar 2013 08:46

Do you have any pictures that show the howitzer from th rear: carriage, breech, shield, etc?
How far is the barrel retreacted? or is it all out?
It may be using the sFH13's carriage.
http://www.forumeerstewereldoorlog.nl/w ... SFH_13.JPG

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby YC Chen » 28 Mar 2013 09:43

So my guess could be right after all... If this really is a Rheinmetall weapon, possiblity is that it was introduced to Shanxi alongside with its smaller caliber conterpart, the 10.5cm Type 16 and 8.8cm Type 18. As it is seldom mentioned in even the most comprehensive sources, its production number could be even smaller than that of Type 16 and Type 18(of which less than 100 were produced before the war broke out, some sources suggest), perhaps only limited to a few prototypes.

I agree with your view that the carriage may be the same as sFH 13.

As I have mentioned this is in a superb artillery exhibition hall in my city (Nanjing/Nanking) which only opens to the public on some special occasions. It last opened to the public a few weeks ago and I forgot to visit(shame on me! :oops: :cry: ). These photos were taken by a visitor and I found them in a Chinese forum, unfortunately he didn't take photos from the rear.

I'll try to arrange a personal visit to this exhibition hall this summer and I hope I can succeed. After all there are tones of interesting piece of artillery, although this 15cm howitzer is perhaps the most intersting.

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby nuyt » 28 Mar 2013 10:41

Great, so there is hope that you may find a surviving HIH piece after all :)

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby YC Chen » 31 Mar 2013 12:40

Another unidentified Jin(Shanxi) made gun, captured by Japanese in Taiyuan. I thought this is a Shanghai Krupp(copy of Krupp M1904 mountain gun), but the carriage is very different.

Any ideas?
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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby nuyt » 31 Mar 2013 13:13

the weapon looks a bit like the Bofors 75mm mountain howitzer..
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... ntain+guns

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby nuyt » 06 Apr 2013 20:09

There may be a HIH connection with the 15cm howitzer. HIH offered a 15cm L22 on boxtrail and a 15cm L25 with a similar recoil arrangement.
Neither of the two designs is a perfect match however.

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby YC Chen » 12 Apr 2013 13:25

nuyt wrote:the weapon looks a bit like the Bofors 75mm mountain howitzer..
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... ntain+guns

Thanks. It seems that I could not identify it as it has lost its shield. So this is another proof that artillery of KMT central forces sent by Nanking did apear on Shanxi front.

If the 15cm howitzer really is from Shanxi, I'm incline to believe that it is the third gun that Rheinmetall(Solothurn) proposed to the Shanxi warlord Yan Xishan, apart from the 10.5cm Type 16 and 8.8cm Type 18.

P.S. as for the Type 331 12cm mortar in Korean war, I have found some Chinese materials state that it was used in some extent as regimental supporting weapon, but was not particularly effective as its range is inferior than Soviet 12cm mortars and American 4.2in chemical mortars(used as their main heavy mortars by both the Chinese and the Americans).

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby nuyt » 12 Apr 2013 17:11

Thanks.
Any idea on this weapon? Looks like a germanic one or is it something Japanese?
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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby nuyt » 12 Apr 2013 17:19

Yep, I guess this Japanese one (same location, same year, same photographer)
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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Postby ain92 » 12 Apr 2013 19:23

Hello, nuyt.
The second howitzer is definitely Type 4 (M1915) 149 mm field howitzer.
The first one can be 120 or 149 mm Krupp howitzer. Personally I can't say for sure.
With best regards, Ilya.


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