Need ID Chinese artillery

Discussions on all aspects of China, from the beginning of the First Sino-Japanese War till the end of the Chinese Civil War. Hosted by YC Chen.
User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 836
Joined: 29 Sep 2009, 14:35
Location: Nanking

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#46

Post by YC Chen » 19 Jan 2013, 17:07

Better than Japanese mortars, see here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=16048

User avatar
ain92
Member
Posts: 346
Joined: 04 Jul 2012, 19:06
Location: Saint Petersburg, Russia
Contact:

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#47

Post by ain92 » 03 Feb 2013, 20:37

Hello Chen. Could you check the identification of two 120-mm mortars?
This one is in the US Ordnance Museum looks like Type 331:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... ortar1.jpg, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... ortar2.jpg.
This one in the Batey ha-Osef Museum looks like Type 55 (a copy of PM-38):
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... ef-3-1.jpg, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... ef-3-2.jpg.
With best regards, Ilya.


User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 836
Joined: 29 Sep 2009, 14:35
Location: Nanking

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#48

Post by YC Chen » 04 Feb 2013, 06:12

Hello,
Yes I think the first photo is a Type 331, so the 3rd surviving example around the world :D . Interestingly the Americans label it as a "mortar of Soviet origin". Maybe this was among those surplus war materials that were supplied in huge quantities to Vietnam.

For the mortar in the Batey ha-Osef Museum, if it really is a Chinese mortar then it would be a Type 55. I don't know how to tell a Type 55 from a PM-38.

User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 836
Joined: 29 Sep 2009, 14:35
Location: Nanking

Mysterious 15cm howitzer

#49

Post by YC Chen » 28 Mar 2013, 04:06

Hello all,

This howitzer is on display in an artillery exhibition hall in my city. I have no idea what this could be, have never seen anything like it.

The introduction plate beside this gun is misplaced(it's an introduction of another gun). Perhaps the exhibition hall staff also have no idea what it is.

Any idea what it is? Maybe the mysterious Jin made 15cm howitzer(named mentioned in some memoir articles, but detailed information unknown), or maybe some lesser-known imported gun?
Attachments
181221x7ei7uxiuiu4uvjy_jpg_thumb.jpg
181217mb0wmtsgdsmvrmrm_jpg_thumb.jpg
181115e1jcbj3s1sujjsjw_jpg_thumb.jpg

User avatar
nuyt
Member
Posts: 1667
Joined: 29 Dec 2004, 14:39
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#50

Post by nuyt » 28 Mar 2013, 09:32

Very interesting!
IS nothing writtten on the breechblock?
Bears all the hallmakrs of some 1920s Rheinmetall design, looks like an upgrade of the sFH13 along the lines of the equally mysterious 10,5cm light field howitzer shown in Reichswehr service.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... e+front%21
Excellent find! Where is the weapon located?
Last edited by nuyt on 28 Mar 2013, 09:48, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
nuyt
Member
Posts: 1667
Joined: 29 Dec 2004, 14:39
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#51

Post by nuyt » 28 Mar 2013, 09:46

Do you have any pictures that show the howitzer from th rear: carriage, breech, shield, etc?
How far is the barrel retreacted? or is it all out?
It may be using the sFH13's carriage.
http://www.forumeerstewereldoorlog.nl/w ... SFH_13.JPG

User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 836
Joined: 29 Sep 2009, 14:35
Location: Nanking

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#52

Post by YC Chen » 28 Mar 2013, 10:43

So my guess could be right after all... If this really is a Rheinmetall weapon, possiblity is that it was introduced to Shanxi alongside with its smaller caliber conterpart, the 10.5cm Type 16 and 8.8cm Type 18. As it is seldom mentioned in even the most comprehensive sources, its production number could be even smaller than that of Type 16 and Type 18(of which less than 100 were produced before the war broke out, some sources suggest), perhaps only limited to a few prototypes.

I agree with your view that the carriage may be the same as sFH 13.

As I have mentioned this is in a superb artillery exhibition hall in my city (Nanjing/Nanking) which only opens to the public on some special occasions. It last opened to the public a few weeks ago and I forgot to visit(shame on me! :oops: :cry: ). These photos were taken by a visitor and I found them in a Chinese forum, unfortunately he didn't take photos from the rear.

I'll try to arrange a personal visit to this exhibition hall this summer and I hope I can succeed. After all there are tones of interesting piece of artillery, although this 15cm howitzer is perhaps the most intersting.

User avatar
nuyt
Member
Posts: 1667
Joined: 29 Dec 2004, 14:39
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#53

Post by nuyt » 28 Mar 2013, 11:41

Great, so there is hope that you may find a surviving HIH piece after all :)

User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 836
Joined: 29 Sep 2009, 14:35
Location: Nanking

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#54

Post by YC Chen » 31 Mar 2013, 13:40

Another unidentified Jin(Shanxi) made gun, captured by Japanese in Taiyuan. I thought this is a Shanghai Krupp(copy of Krupp M1904 mountain gun), but the carriage is very different.

Any ideas?
Attachments
taiyuan.JPG

User avatar
nuyt
Member
Posts: 1667
Joined: 29 Dec 2004, 14:39
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#55

Post by nuyt » 31 Mar 2013, 14:13

the weapon looks a bit like the Bofors 75mm mountain howitzer..
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... ntain+guns

User avatar
nuyt
Member
Posts: 1667
Joined: 29 Dec 2004, 14:39
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#56

Post by nuyt » 06 Apr 2013, 21:09

There may be a HIH connection with the 15cm howitzer. HIH offered a 15cm L22 on boxtrail and a 15cm L25 with a similar recoil arrangement.
Neither of the two designs is a perfect match however.

User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 836
Joined: 29 Sep 2009, 14:35
Location: Nanking

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#57

Post by YC Chen » 12 Apr 2013, 14:25

nuyt wrote:the weapon looks a bit like the Bofors 75mm mountain howitzer..
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... ntain+guns
Thanks. It seems that I could not identify it as it has lost its shield. So this is another proof that artillery of KMT central forces sent by Nanking did apear on Shanxi front.

If the 15cm howitzer really is from Shanxi, I'm incline to believe that it is the third gun that Rheinmetall(Solothurn) proposed to the Shanxi warlord Yan Xishan, apart from the 10.5cm Type 16 and 8.8cm Type 18.

P.S. as for the Type 331 12cm mortar in Korean war, I have found some Chinese materials state that it was used in some extent as regimental supporting weapon, but was not particularly effective as its range is inferior than Soviet 12cm mortars and American 4.2in chemical mortars(used as their main heavy mortars by both the Chinese and the Americans).

User avatar
nuyt
Member
Posts: 1667
Joined: 29 Dec 2004, 14:39
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#58

Post by nuyt » 12 Apr 2013, 18:11

Thanks.
Any idea on this weapon? Looks like a germanic one or is it something Japanese?
Attachments
kmtartillery.jpg
kmtartillery.jpg (106.94 KiB) Viewed 19801 times

User avatar
nuyt
Member
Posts: 1667
Joined: 29 Dec 2004, 14:39
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#59

Post by nuyt » 12 Apr 2013, 18:19

Yep, I guess this Japanese one (same location, same year, same photographer)
Attachments
kmtartillery2.jpg
kmtartillery2.jpg (112.82 KiB) Viewed 19801 times

User avatar
ain92
Member
Posts: 346
Joined: 04 Jul 2012, 19:06
Location: Saint Petersburg, Russia
Contact:

Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

#60

Post by ain92 » 12 Apr 2013, 20:23

Hello, nuyt.
The second howitzer is definitely Type 4 (M1915) 149 mm field howitzer.
The first one can be 120 or 149 mm Krupp howitzer. Personally I can't say for sure.
With best regards, Ilya.

Post Reply

Return to “China at War 1895-1949”