The War in China in Pictures

[Peter H]

From ebay,seller merrysun

Changsha January 1942..Chinese troops gather discarded Japanese weapons after the Japanese retreat there

[michael mills]

I refer readers back to the very first post on this thread, posted by PeterH.

It shows a painting of Chinese soldiers in green uniforms and KMT caps in hand-to-hand combat with Japaense soldiers in brown uniforms and wearing helmets.

What I found most interesting in the painting was the three Chinese soldiers shown fighting with blood-stained traditional Chinese beheading swords. One of the sword-wielding soldiers is about to behead a Japanese soldier who had just bayonetted his Chinese adversary.

The reason I find it interesting, and also revealing, is that in this section of the Forum I have from time to time encountered a deal of sustained whining by various contributors about a semi-fictional competition between two Japanese officers regarding the number of Chinese soldiers they had allegedly killed in combat with their swords. That competition, and the use of swords more generally, is presented as an example of Japanese barbarity.

I had always regarded that alleged "beheading competition" as largely propagandistic, something cooked up by sensationalist Japanese newspapers in order pander to their audience. After all, a sword is hardly a useful weapon in modern combat, particularly against an enemy with firearms.

However, here we have Chinese propaganda showing Chinese soldeirs using swords in combat! The issue is not whether Chinese soldiers really did use unwieldy swords in combat (unlikely); the issue is that the Chinese had much the same attitude to the concept of figthing with swords as did the Japanese, ie as a sign of heroism and courage.

The two Japanese officers who were the protagonists of the alleged "beheading competition" touted in the Japanese newspapers were executed by the Chinese Government after the war, on the grounds that what they did was barbaric. That strikes me as more than a little hypocritical, since it is apparent that the Chinese themselves liked the idea of using swords in combat against the Japanese "yellow monkeys", even if they did not actually do so.

[nobodyofnote]

I refer readers back to the very first post on this thread, posted by PeterH.

It shows a painting of Chinese soldiers in green uniforms and KMT caps in hand-to-hand combat with Japaense soldiers in brown uniforms and wearing helmets.

What I found most interesting in the painting was the three Chinese soldiers shown fighting with blood-stained traditional Chinese beheading swords. One of the sword-wielding soldiers is about to behead a Japanese soldier who had just bayonetted his Chinese adversary.

The reason I find it interesting, and also revealing, is that in this section of the Forum I have from time to time encountered a deal of sustained whining by various contributors about a semi-fictional competition between two Japanese officers regarding the number of Chinese soldiers they had allegedly killed in combat with their swords. That competition, and the use of swords more generally, is presented as an example of Japanese barbarity.

I had always regarded that alleged "beheading competition" as largely propagandistic, something cooked up by sensationalist Japanese newspapers in order pander to their audience. After all, a sword is hardly a useful weapon in modern combat, particularly against an enemy with firearms.

However, here we have Chinese propaganda showing Chinese soldeirs using swords in combat! The issue is not whether Chinese soldiers really did use unwieldy swords in combat (unlikely); the issue is that the Chinese had much the same attitude to the concept of figthing with swords as did the Japanese, ie as a sign of heroism and courage.

The two Japanese officers who were the protagonists of the alleged "beheading competition" touted in the Japanese newspapers were executed by the Chinese Government after the war, on the grounds that what they did was barbaric. That strikes me as more than a little hypocritical, since it is apparent that the Chinese themselves liked the idea of using swords in combat against the Japanese "yellow monkeys", even if they did not actually do so.

Those so-called 'paintings' are from the 'Horrors of War' bubblegum card set from 1938, drawn and manufactured in Philadelphia and sold in the United States. The purpose of the cards was, according to the maker and supporter of isolationism Warren Bowman, 'to teach peace by exposing the horrors of war.' ie. it was about the brutality of war, taking neither side in the conflict. I've seen the entire collection of 240 cards (he also produced further cards depicting horrors of other wars). They are drawn with a very Eurocentric view of Asians, and are hardly Chinese propaganda.

[Peter H]

KMT Big Sword unit
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=102055

[michael mills]

I still maintain my point, which is that in negative propagandistic portrayals of the Japanese military during and before the Second World War, the alleged use of the traditional Japanese sword, whether in actual combat, or for executing prisoners, or merely for posing, is generally cited as an example of putative Japanese atavistic barbarism and fanaticism.

The photos of Chinese soldiers wielding "big swords" indicates a similar fascination with swords on the part of Chinese. I am sceptical whether swords were really used in combat by either Chinese or Japanese; they are not much use against an opponent with a firearm.

I would say that the use of swords by both Chinese and Japanese was essentially the same; for tough-guy posturing, and, more grimly, for executing unarmed prisoners.

[YC Chen]

The Chinese did use broad swords in fight, mostly by the forces under the command of or used to be under the command of Feng Yu-Hsiang, and were often put in the position of bayonets. They were used in the civil war in 1930 against Chiang Kai-Shek's troops, and again in 1933-1937 against Japanese army, and finally became a symbol of bravery and patriotism. Big swords were also used frequently by partisans who hope to use this to capture batter weapons.
And there is a paticular condition under which big swords are much better than firearms, often overlooked by historians. If you were a defender on the high wall of a traditional Chinese fortified town, you would find it much more handy to cut the arms of the attackers as soon as they put their hands on the top of the wall, than to shoot them when they come to your face.

[Peter H]

From ebay,seller kaiguncurry

Chinese troops in Shanghai pre 1937

Peace Preservation Corps troops?

[oirob]

Description says: 1910s CHINA Chinese soldiers
I'm not sure - perhaps rather 1920s ???
What do you think?

[YC Chen]

Description says: 1910s CHINA Chinese soldiers
I'm not sure - perhaps rather 1920s ???
What do you think?

I have seen this photo before, it is said that it shows Chekiang army in Shanghai. I think late 1910s or early 1920s.

[YC Chen]

This photo is from 1951(taken in Nanjing), but it shows two very rare weapons bought by China in 1930s and 1950s: 15cm L/30(I think not L/32) howitzer and American M3 High-speed tractor! photo from kongfz.com
Another very nice photo of German 15cm howitzer in China can be seen here: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1&start=30

[YC Chen]

Japanese photos showing cute small blockhouses built by 19RA in Shanghai (near Hongqiao airport) in 1932: also from kongfz.com

[nuyt]

great picture!

[oirob]

General TANG YU-LIN China 1933
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_Yulin

$(KGrHqVHJEwE91576-J,BPi4L)Mztg~~60_3[1].jpg (46.33 KiB) Viewed 2337 times

$(KGrHqV,!nUE8VgDu!N7BPi4Ly8jBQ~~60_3[1].jpg (75.86 KiB) Viewed 2337 times

"...for his treachery, he was assassinated, according to reports from abroad..."
Seems to be a false report.
According to wikipedia he died in 1937 in the Italian concession of Tianjin.

[oirob]

Scans from a chinese Photo-book about the"Second Zhili–Fengtian War":

http://www.douban.com/photos/album/65348993/?start=0

[michael mills]

What was the Second Zhili-Fengtian War?

Presumably not as memorable as the Sino-Japanese War.