MG 42 and StG 44 in China?
Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?
Well, maybe you guys don't really understand my opinion. My opinion is: China didn't produce any MG 34, but some were used by Chinese army before 1949.
Although some Chinese sources state that PLA asked Soviet Union for some captured German weapons in 1946, but I don't think PLA got any during the Civil War. There are some late-WWII German weapons in Chinese museums, and I believe the saying that they were purchased from Soviet in 1950s for training purpose.
Maybe these MG34s showing in document photos and being used by PLA are from Europe or North Africa(KMT bought some weapons from Europe after WWII, like the M-10 tank destroyers, etc), I don't know.
Although some Chinese sources state that PLA asked Soviet Union for some captured German weapons in 1946, but I don't think PLA got any during the Civil War. There are some late-WWII German weapons in Chinese museums, and I believe the saying that they were purchased from Soviet in 1950s for training purpose.
Maybe these MG34s showing in document photos and being used by PLA are from Europe or North Africa(KMT bought some weapons from Europe after WWII, like the M-10 tank destroyers, etc), I don't know.
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for training purpose
I find that difficult to believe since the MG34 was one of the best machineguns in the world right up into the 1960s. If the PLA acquired MG34s in quantity they would almost certainly be used in places like Korea.
Re: for training purpose
I don't mean MG 34s, I mean some earlier weapons, like PAK 38 5cm AT guns, 7.5cm infantry guns, etc. which can be found in some Chinese museums. I think PLA didn't have these until 1950s. However, I believe PLA captured a number of MG34s from KMT and then put them back into service, as showed by the Shanghai 1949 photo.Dave Bender wrote:I find that difficult to believe since the MG 34 was one of the best machineguns in the world right up into the 1960s. If the PLA acquired MG 34s in quantity they would almost certainly be used in places like Korea.
I don't know if PLA used any MG 34s in Korea-maybe there were some.
Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?
I still don't think the KMT had the MG 34 to begin with.
I am skeptical on the date of the picture from the book. But as Dave said, there would have been reports of them being used in Korea or maybe they did not want to use it because it was a prized weapon??
I am skeptical on the date of the picture from the book. But as Dave said, there would have been reports of them being used in Korea or maybe they did not want to use it because it was a prized weapon??
Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?
Russia asked communist China if they need some 79 cal. anti-air-MG, August 1949.
China asked for 360 units, with ammo.
At least 310 units received by the communist force, which was going to Korea.
The others, 50 units, maybe keep in China mainland. Maybe the one in that photo Shanghai 1949.
The 79 cal. anti-air-MG very likely the MG34 or MG42.
Other report shows that the ammo produced by KMT not fit for the MG34.
China asked for 360 units, with ammo.
At least 310 units received by the communist force, which was going to Korea.
The others, 50 units, maybe keep in China mainland. Maybe the one in that photo Shanghai 1949.
The 79 cal. anti-air-MG very likely the MG34 or MG42.
Other report shows that the ammo produced by KMT not fit for the MG34.
Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?
Interesting account. Could you provide the source please?Candybag wrote:Russia asked communist China if they need some 79 cal. anti-air-MG, August 1949.
China asked for 360 units, with ammo.
At least 310 units received by the communist force, which was going to Korea.
The others, 50 units, maybe keep in China mainland. Maybe the one in that photo Shanghai 1949.
The 79 cal. anti-air-MG very likely the MG34 or MG42.
Other report shows that the ammo produced by KMT not fit for the MG34.
Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?
Maybe you won't like it.YC Chen wrote:Interesting account. Could you provide the source please?Candybag wrote:Russia asked communist China if they need some 79 cal. anti-air-MG, August 1949.
China asked for 360 units, with ammo.
At least 310 units received by the communist force, which was going to Korea.
The others, 50 units, maybe keep in China mainland. Maybe the one in that photo Shanghai 1949.
The 79 cal. anti-air-MG very likely the MG34 or MG42.
Other report shows that the ammo produced by KMT not fit for the MG34.
http://bbs.tiexue.net/post_7891277_1.html
Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?
Thanks a lot!Candybag wrote:Maybe you won't like it.YC Chen wrote:Interesting account. Could you provide the source please?Candybag wrote:Russia asked communist China if they need some 79 cal. anti-air-MG, August 1949.
China asked for 360 units, with ammo.
At least 310 units received by the communist force, which was going to Korea.
The others, 50 units, maybe keep in China mainland. Maybe the one in that photo Shanghai 1949.
The 79 cal. anti-air-MG very likely the MG34 or MG42.
Other report shows that the ammo produced by KMT not fit for the MG34.
http://bbs.tiexue.net/post_7891277_1.html
I don't know why I would not like it... I think this arguement is quite reasonable
So it is highly possible that most(if not all) MG34s in Mainland China were from Russia.
However, if you take a look at the very first post of this topic, you would see that there were MG42 in Taiwan. What's more, in fact I have got a MG42 manual published in Taiwan in 1950s in my collection. So it is highly possible that, in Taiwan, the KMT forces also got some MG42s. The origin of those Taiwanese MG42s are still unknown, at least to me.
Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?
MG 42 and StG 44/45 is easy to obtain postwar, many country sold and even can produce some. For research, any gun in museum is reasonable, if not for service. Taiwan it self can produce a wide range of small arms.YC Chen wrote:Thanks a lot!Candybag wrote:Maybe you won't like it.YC Chen wrote:Interesting account. Could you provide the source please?Candybag wrote:Russia asked communist China if they need some 79 cal. anti-air-MG, August 1949.
China asked for 360 units, with ammo.
At least 310 units received by the communist force, which was going to Korea.
The others, 50 units, maybe keep in China mainland. Maybe the one in that photo Shanghai 1949.
The 79 cal. anti-air-MG very likely the MG34 or MG42.
Other report shows that the ammo produced by KMT not fit for the MG34.
http://bbs.tiexue.net/post_7891277_1.html
I don't know why I would not like it... I think this arguement is quite reasonable
So it is highly possible that most(if not all) MG34s in Mainland China were from Russia.
However, if you take a look at the very first post of this topic, you would see that there were MG42 in Taiwan. What's more, in fact I have got a MG42 manual published in Taiwan in 1950s in my collection. So it is highly possible that, in Taiwan, the KMT forces also got some MG42s. The origin of those Taiwanese MG42s are still unknown, at least to me.
Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?
It is certain that before the Sino-Japanese War, we had equipped MG30 and MG13.Regarding MG34/42, the earliest purchase intention was in December 1948.In the historical photos of KMT, it can be clearly seen that some KMT troops in 1954 and 1955 were equipped with MG34/42.In CCP, the vast majority of MG34/42 was either given to Vietnam or left to the militia. The last use record image I found shows that in 1962, the militia used MG34 to conduct air defense exercises.
(MG34 machine gun used by Chinese militia, 1962)
(KMT Army, 1954)
(KMT Army,1955)
(MG30 and MG13 in China)
(MG34 machine gun used by Chinese militia, 1962)
(KMT Army, 1954)
(KMT Army,1955)
(MG30 and MG13 in China)
Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?
April 1938 report by a member of the German training mission in China on the initial fighting, weaponry and tactics.Yang wrote: ↑18 Feb 2023, 15:38It is certain that before the Sino-Japanese War, we had equipped MG30 and MG13.Regarding MG34/42, the earliest purchase intention was in December 1948.In the historical photos of KMT, it can be clearly seen that some KMT troops in 1954 and 1955 were equipped with MG34/42.In CCP, the vast majority of MG34/42 was either given to Vietnam or left to the militia. The last use record image I found shows that in 1962, the militia used MG34 to conduct air defense exercises.
(MG34 machine gun used by Chinese militia, 1962)
(KMT Army, 1954)
(KMT Army,1955)
(MG30 and MG13 in China)
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6
pages 28-44 lists the various weaponry in use by the Chinese forces.
MG's listed are
Browning
Brünn
Hotchkiss (also also heavy version)
MG13 (Dreyse) in the German AFV's
Maxim (sMG 08, domestic Chinese manufacture)
Infantry munition was manufactured locally, but the more complex types were imported from various European countries.
below are various shippments from Germany to China in 1938. Where specified the goods are from other countries but shipped on German ships.
k= Kiste (Box)
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7