Footage of Ustasha/HOS wearing Finnish Uniforms??

[zagreb29]

Ran into some B/W footage from a documentary. at 0:04 to 0:42 there are Ustasha troops training on a mortar. There is a variety of uniform and gear that the soldiers are wearing. Not sure about the ammo poucshes but if you look closley at some of the men's tunics , it looks like some of them are wearing Finnish M1936 tunics. The chest pockets are pleated and the bottome ones are not. Plus the tunics have a 6-button front. Any thoughts or comments?

Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BELqb1KWcg


Zagreb29

[Karelia]

The flaps of those pockets are different. They look like the flaps of the officer version of the Finnish M36, which also had points - unlike the rank and file version.

However it is very implausible that any Finnish officer uniforms had been imported, since there was lack of the uniforms (at first) and materials.

Some photos of the Finnish uniforms in different times:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/tuni ... photo1.asp

[zagreb29]

Thanks for replying. I took a look at the link you sent me to do some comparing. The Finnish tunic looks really close to the footage I found,(even the buttons show how their could be the lion symbol on them). I first read about this rumor/fact in the book FOR CROATIA AND CHRIST. And I have heard the same is talk about in another Croat militaria book. I guess in late 1944 and early 1945 a large batch of Finnish uniforms had been sent to Croatia. But I do see the irony that Finland ,(fighting their war against Russia) needed supplies and support from Germany already... and then for Finland to send uniforms to Croatia.

They both look very close though. Although the caps they,(Croats) are wearing is a whole new question. I don't think their
Finnish. Finnish side-caps have a leather chin-cord on them, yes?

Zagreb

[Karelia]

I didn't realise that the film is from a period after the war. Of course it is possible that some uniforms could have been exported after the war, but the (new) war against the Germans lasted until April 1945.

I still doubt that there were lot of spare uniforms for export - especially the officer ones. The used ones were pretty worn out and they were given to the men (without shoulder boards and markings) when they were releived from the army. As I wrote before there was a great shortage of everything, cloth materials included, and everything was needed in the domestic market. Everything was re-used many times over. Finland was struggling to pay enormous war reparations in goods to the USSR for the war they started and the task was sucking Finland dry - for eight years until 1952!

No, the sidecap is not Finnish, which had a letter strap with buttons on sides.

[zagreb29]

The footage is not taken after the war. It's late war going on what the insignia look likes.

So you believe that it's not Finnish at all, so just for fun's sake, what kind of uniform would you think
it is?

[Karelia]

Ok.

I'm really not an uniform expert, so I cannot really guess anything. Maybe they were locally mady. After all the Finnish M36 was very close to the German uniform, so maybe the Croatian one was as well and that's the reason for similarities.

All I know is that in the beginning of the Winter War (1939) Finland didn't have enough uniforms for her own army. After that there was a great shortage of everything - not least of textiles. The pockets of the Croatian uniform are different than in the normal Finnish M36, but similar to the Finnish officer version. Overall I find it extremely unplausible that those Crotian uniforms could be Finnish.

Here's a book about the Croatian uniforms.

http://translate.google.fi/translate?hl ... 945&anno=2

[zagreb29]

It is possible what you say about a Croatian manufactured Finnish model tunics. My knowledge of Finnland's war is limited but I do know they were a counrty that needed all kinds of outside help in supplies to keep fighting on. From what I know, Croatia was the same kind of ally in the Axis partnership.

I actually own CROATIAN UNIFORMS AND INSIGNIA 1941-1945. It is a pretty good book but mostly focuses on the early war period. In that same book they talk about re-using old Royal Jugoslav uniforms for their army and mention in late 1944 that 120,000 sets of German M-43 uniforms were sent to Croatian armed forces.

BTW, someone mention on a thread in the Croatian section titled "Small Arms" ,(I think). And someone said that the Croatian Army in WWII used some "Suomi" M-31 machine guns. I bring this up only because I feel lke I'm not the only one who has read some information again relating Croatia to Finnland some kind of way.

[Karelia]

I tried to find some information regarding the export of "Suomi". Couldn't find anything about Croatia/Yugoslavia, but it is totally possible, that those submachine guns could have found their way also there, since they were exported from Finland and also licence-built in Sweden, Denmark and Switzerland.

[zagreb29]

This is funny to me. I found a photo a long time ago of an Italian partisan woman hiking in the snow. Slung in front of her was a "Suomi" sub machine gun. For the longest time it I didn't get and it was hard to find information in english on late war Italy,(Osprey books suck). But I finally founf an article a friend translated and in it, it discussed how some Italian partisans near the Swiss Italian border,(Val' d'Osollo) had made some black market exchanges with the Swiss. And of course some of that were weapons.

Yeah, I don't know either for sure about "Suomi" being used by Croatian soldiers. But if I do run into a photo of an Croatian soldier holding a sub-gun with a drum-magazine I'll be posting it and asking questions again. (Just like this Uniform mystery.)

[matija191]

Yeah, I don't know either for sure about "Suomi" being used by Croatian soldiers. But if I do run into a photo of an Croatian soldier holding a sub-gun with a drum-magazine I'll be posting it and asking questions again. (Just like this Uniform mystery.)

There is a picture of major Vjekoslav Vrančić armed with Suomi, in book called "Povlačenje 1945 - krivci i žrtve", published in Zagreb in year 2000, on page 23.

[zagreb29]

Matija,

Thanks for the tip. I Googled the Ustasha officer's name. Was hoping to find the photo with holding a Suomi like you described. But there was none I could see. Is that book even availabe in the U.S. ?

I added a picture of Vjekoslav Vrančić. Found an bio on him through Wikipedia. Interesting history this man have.

Zagreb

[matija191]

Matija,

Thanks for the tip. I Googled the Ustasha officer's name. Was hoping to find the photo with holding a Suomi like you described. But there was none I could see. Is that book even availabe in the U.S. ?

I added a picture of Vjekoslav Vrančić. Found an bio on him through Wikipedia. Interesting history this man have.

Zagreb

I dont know.Unfortunately I dont have the book, otherwise I would already scan the photo .Maybe someone of forum has?

[zagreb29]

You got me there. I thought you owned the book and threw in a tease. Yeah, I Googled Vjekoslav Vrančić name and found a Wikipedia entry. From what it sound's like he was high ranking guy and was in charge of foreign affairs.

I saw you posted a reply on the "Small Arms" thread about Finnish-looking unforms used by the HOS. This is like bothering me now I always thought the M-1941 uniform was the only NDH uniform made,(of course there's the kaki and blcack uniforms for the Ustasha). I guess it is possible that the uniforms could have been made by getting materials from Germany. I just thought Croatia was hurting to the point that there was no time to make anything.Especially with that late in the war and the desertions going at a mad rate.