Ustasha members with Chetniks or Cossacks?

[Marcus]

I have recieved conflicting information about the below photo, are the people togerther with the Ustasha members Chetniks or Cossacks?


Thanks.

/Marcus

[G. Trifkovic]

Whenever there is a "dispute" on ex-Yu forums (of all kinds and qualities) whether chetniks really hated the ustashis that much (read: collaborate), this photo is posted, usualy with a comment "Now what do you have to say". Of course, many are quick to say it is a communist forgery, giving all kinds of analysis, like "the hand doesn't look natural", etc. IIRC there was a discussion on this photo on pro-chetnik "Pogledi" forum, and even they could not agree if it were a forgery or not.

I never heard Cossacks mentioned in connection with this photo.

Cheers,

Gaius

[Hrvatina123]

Those are Cossacks.
I have sent you an E-mail with that information because the name of that picture offends me and my Ustasha ancestors. We have discussed this picture on a Croatian forum and we came to a conclusion that those are Ustashas with Cossacks.I will soon post the information about this, and proof that shows those are not chetniks.

[Hrvatina123]

The other part of the picture


Those are Cossacks

Another picture of Cossacks:

[Semenov]

Hi,
Men on left on my opnion wear ex yugoslav uniform (also unknown belt buckle) and not characteur cocarde Kos. unit, men on right wear cossack Papacha with Russian imperial cocarde, but his uniform don't knows me.
Only cossack unit in NDH was XV KKK (early 1.Kos. Div.) it doesn't wear ex yugoslav uniform and wear WH uniform with aegle on the brest. I have doubt what this people are cossacks. Another picture of Cossacks from forum member shows us WWI cossacks or kaukasian foto.

Regards!

[Hrvatina123]

It is very likely that this picture is some kind of a forgery.
As you can see- those "Cossacks" don't wear their classic uniforms, so they probably aren't Cossacks, but they aren't chetniks either because they don't wear "kokarda" or "šajkaèa" hats.The "Domobran" on the right is wearing officer's insignia and a hat of an ordinary Domobran soldier.The "Domobran" also wears a strap, which has been worn only by ordinary soldiers, not by officers. The "chetnik" on the left has a nurtured beard, and chetniks were proud that they didn't take care of their beards, they just let them grow...
I have heard that there were a Wehrmacht officer and a Catholic priest on the left side of the picture. It would be really strange to have 3 chetniks in the same room with a living Catholic priest...They would have surely killed him...And it is really hard to believe that chetniks and the Ustasha would collaborate at all, because they were bitter enemies! The "Ustasha" in the middle wears rank insignia on his upper arm and Ustasha were wearing rank insignia on their forearms.He is also wearing a black uniform, and black uniforms were used only by the Black Legion-a unit that was made especially to fight AGAINST the chetniks! I know that my Ustasha ancestors wouldn't collaborate with "people" that killed their family and burned their villages! Please rename the picture, or at least remove it's name!
Thank You.

[Hrvatina123]

Well, will You please change/remove the name of that picture?

[Ivan Bajlo]

And it is really hard to believe that chetniks and the Ustasha would collaborate at all, because they were bitter enemies!

They both had bigger enemy in communists, so joining forces against common foe is perfectly natural. During 1942 most Chetniks in NDH either become part of Italian MVAC or signed agreements with NDH acknowledging poglavnik and NDH in return for status of members of regular NDH armed forces receiving weapons and ammunition to keep communist out of their territory.

The "Ustasha" in the middle wears rank insignia on his upper arm and Ustasha were wearing rank insignia on their forearms.He is also wearing a black uniform, and black uniforms were used only by the Black Legion-a unit that was made especially to fight AGAINST the chetniks! I know that my Ustasha ancestors wouldn't collaborate with "people" that killed their family and burned their villages!

Members of 13. SS Handzar division had to collaborate with same Chetniks in Eastern Bosnia which forced them to flee their homes and join the division - imagine how they felt.

Another example is in 1944 Benkovac was jointly defended by 6th Ustasha Battalion/7th Brigade, Chetnik Benkovac and Flying brigades (both under overall command of Momcilo Djujic) and German 2nd Battalion/891st Regiment. First attack by Partisan 19th Dalmatian Division managed to capture town for two days before Germans took it back, during those two days over 100 defenders which couldn't retreat remained hidden in town sewage!

[Hrvatina123]

And it is really hard to believe that chetniks and the Ustasha would collaborate at all, because they were bitter enemies!

They both had bigger enemy in communists, so joining forces against common foe is perfectly natural. During 1942 most Chetniks in NDH either become part of Italian MVAC or signed agreements with NDH acknowledging poglavnik and NDH in return for status of members of regular NDH armed forces receiving weapons and ammunition to keep communist out of their territory.

The "Ustasha" in the middle wears rank insignia on his upper arm and Ustasha were wearing rank insignia on their forearms.He is also wearing a black uniform, and black uniforms were used only by the Black Legion-a unit that was made especially to fight AGAINST the chetniks! I know that my Ustasha ancestors wouldn't collaborate with "people" that killed their family and burned their villages!

Members of 13. SS Handzar division had to collaborate with same Chetniks in Eastern Bosnia which forced them to flee their homes and join the division - imagine how they felt.

Another example is in 1944 Benkovac was jointly defended by 6th Ustasha Battalion/7th Brigade, Chetnik Benkovac and Flying brigades (both under overall command of Momcilo Djujic) and German 2nd Battalion/891st Regiment. First attack by Partisan 19th Dalmatian Division managed to capture town for two days before Germans took it back, during those two days over 100 defenders which couldn't retreat remained hidden in town sewage!

At the end of WW2, Draza Mihailovic has sent messengers to Pavelic, and he asked him to help the chetniks , and Pavelic refused.
Yeah, I know that the Germans sometimes made the Croats and Muslims in the SS Handschar division collaborate with chetniks, that's why my cousins (i don't know what exactly, mother's uncles i guess) deserted in 1944, they did not want to collaborate with the chetniks, but that was their obligation as members of the SS.I'm glad they refused the collaboration
I have heard that Ustashas and chetniks were shooting at each others during the battle of Neretva and that that's why the partisans won the battle

[Marcus]

Well, will You please change/remove the name of that picture?

There are clearly conflicting thoughts on what is shown in the image so I'm waiting for the situation to clear up and some proof being presented.

/Marcus

[Ivan Bajlo]

At the end of WW2, Draza Mihailovic has sent messengers to Pavelic, and he asked him to help the chetniks , and Pavelic refused.

Are you sure? Considering Draza spent entire war in Serbia there was little point in making earlier contact, in April 1945 general Svetomir Đukić meet with Pavelic three times resulting in medical supplies against typhoid and ammo being delivered to Draza.

I have heard that Ustashas and chetniks were shooting at each others during the battle of Neretva and that that's why the partisans won the battle

Official Chetnik propaganda claims that Partisans joined forces with Germans and Ustashe, there is also story about Black Legion leaving ammo for Tito's Proletarian brigades in 1942 (at the time made mostly of Serbs)... :roll:

[streljko1]

over 100 defenders which couldn't retreat remained hidden in town sewage

I guess that is from Radosevic, it would be interesting to see all those Cetnik, German and Ustasha trapped underground...
Also it is interesting how Dinara division managed to reach Italy unopposed by Ustasha and Germans after Knin operation, since they claim that they fought them so bitterly for years

have heard that Ustashas and chetniks were shooting at each others during the battle of Neretva and that that's why the partisans won the battle

Unfortunately, many "Ustashe" they were shooting were Croatian civilians for most part not loyal to NDH.

[Serbian boy]

I have heard that there were a Wehrmacht officer and a Catholic priest on the left side of the picture. It would be really strange to have 3 chetniks in the same room with a living Catholic priest...They would have surely killed him...And it is really hard to believe that chetniks and the Ustasha would collaborate at all, because they were bitter enemies!

Yes chetniks moved from village to village with the goal of killing chatolic priests and ustashas were angels :roll: .
There was collaboration between Serbia national units in Bosnia with the NDH.

! The "Ustasha" in the middle wears rank insignia on his upper arm and Ustasha were wearing rank insignia on their forearms.He is also wearing a black uniform, and black uniforms were used only by the Black Legion-a unit that was made especially to fight AGAINST the chetniks!

Black Legion was used by germans for guarding duties and later it was disbanded. Also it had some combats with Dangic's Chetniks in march-april 1942. In this time Dangic was attacked by the ustashas and communists in the same time.

Methinks this picture showe Uros Drenovic with three ustashas and one domobran in hotel "Bosna" in Banja Luka in 1942.

Maybe someone can translate this from serbian to english:

"Medjutim, Drenovic je cesto odlazio u Banjaluku. Njegova slika za stolom u kafani hotela "Bosna", sa trojicom domobrana i jednim ustasom, spada u red najvise objavljivanih fotografija iz Drugog svetskog rata na nasem tlu. A te noci, po prvom Drenovicevom silasku u Banjaluku, Srbi su prvi put mirno spavali jos od pocetka rata. Pojava ovog dvometrasa opasnog izgleda, i jos mnogo njemu slicnih cetnika na okolnim brdima, najzad donela dozu smirenja medju srpski zivalj, koji je, do tada, samo blagodareci prisustvu nemackih trupa spasen od potpunog istrebljenja."

Source: "Miloslav Samardzic- Draza i opsta istorija cetnickog pokreta", vol. 4.

[Junak1929]

Black Legion was used by germans for guarding duties and later it was disbanded.

Methinks this picture showe Uros Drenovic with three ustashas and one domobran in hotel "Bosna" in Banja Luka in 1942.

[Ivan Bajlo]

Black Legion was used by germans for guarding duties and later it was disbanded. Also it had some combats with Dangic's Chetniks in march-april 1942. In this time Dangic was attacked by the ustashas and communists in the same time.

There was also several coups which resulted in eliminate of communist commanders, dissolution of Tito's volunteer army and loss of communist stronghold in entire Eastern Bosnia until second half of 1943.

Methinks this picture showe Uros Drenovic with three ustashas and one domobran in hotel "Bosna" in Banja Luka in 1942.

Your could be right there is a poor quality photo of Drenovic (misspelled Drekovic) in Kosutic book (Hrvatsko Domobranstvo u Drugom svjetskom) when he negotiated with colonel Šimić and there is a resemblance.