Anti-Fascist Struggle Day: The Bete Noir of the neo-Ustashe?

[Rob - wssob2]

I thought I'd split this off from the NDH-symbolism-pop-culture thread since its a separate topic.

DamirGS was kind enough to point out

Just a little remainder, today is 22.06. national holiday in Croatia.

Anti-Fascist Struggle Day is a celebration in Croatia of the uprising of Croatian Antifascist partisans against German and Italian occupying forces in 1941 near Sisak, Croatia. It is celebrated on June 22.

To which gorskizdrug responded:

So called uprising was in fact act of terorism, couple of bandits raised arms against legitimate gouverment.
They actually killed from behind two members of Gendarmerie ( Oružničtva ) and escaped in woods!!
It was the first day of " uprising "! Interesting thing; they uprised the same day Germany attacked Soviet Union, how come they did not " uprise " immediately after Yugoslavia was attacked in April, or May!!??
My point is: it was not uprising of Croatian Antifascist partisans, it was rebelion of a few communists against legitimate gouverment orchestrated from Kominterna and Soviet Union.

One more thing, the same partisans you are glorify were Chetnich allies during 1941, and I dont mean allies of some mountain militia, I mean official allies of Draža Mihajlović Army in Homeland which had famous anti Croat program!

I think gorskizdrug has a couple of his facts wrong:

1) The "legitimate government" at the time of the uprising was the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, with a government-in-exile located in London. The "independent state of Croatia" was a puppet (i.e. powerless, not independent) government appointed by Nazi Germany and fascist Italy.

2) The terrorists/freedom fighters (choose whichever label based on whatever side of the ideological divide you're on) didn't have to fight in April 1941, because the Yugoslav Army was doing the fighting. That army was quickly defeated by the Nazis.

3) It is true that it wasn't until the Soviet Union was invaded that Croatian Partisans began the "armed struggle" (to use a term of the day). The Yugoslav Communists began organizing the Partisan movement after June 22, 1941. The KPJ (the Yugoslav Communist Party) proclaimed the "National Liberation Army of Yugoslavia" (the technical name for the Partisans - abbreviated NOVJ) on June 27th. In the summer of 1941 Partisan detachments sprang up at Mount Kopaonik in Serbia, in the Bosnian town of Tulza, Montenegro and of course the aforementioned Croatian Partisan detachment.

4) Those "few Communists" eventually became the 1st Sisak Partisan Detachment, named after the Croatian town near where they were formed.

One of its original members was a guy named Janko Bobetko, a Croatian veterinary student whose father and three brothers were killed by the NDH.

His career is a textbook study in the tangled web of Yugoslav history: Bobetko survived WWII, rising up the ranks, becoming a general in the postwar Yugoslav People's Army. He was sacked from his job in the 1970's due to his sympathies with Croatian Communists who had a more independent/nationalist streak. However, in the early 1990's he rejoined active service as the Southern Front commander for Croatia v2.0. He oversaw the 1993 offensive against the Krajina Serb territory, during which units under his command allegedly committed war crimes against civilians. Under indictement for said war crimes, Bobetko refused to surrender to the International Criminal Tribunal but died (fortunately for the Croatian government) before the wheels of extradition could get grinding.

5) As for the Partisans being allies of the Chetniks, yes, at certain times among certain units, Partisans did operate uneasily or have cease-fires with the Chetniks. And at other times under different circumstances, the Partisans and the Chetniks fought each other mercilessly. Whatever temporary allegiances they had were short in duration and due to local circumstances.

[Rob - wssob2]

Junak1929, who's becoming kind of a Mile Budak for the AHF, wrote the following:

Yeah quite the celebration when the majority was at Jazovka, a pit in Northwestern Croatia where partizan ruthlessly slaughtered Croatian men women and children and threw them (some live) into the deep pit located there. The Drzavni Vrh (Government head) was as usual spreading its pro-titoist propaganda in Sisak; which is a complete and utter shame for Croatia, they are worshiping a communist dictator who has been branded as one of the most notorious mega killers of modern history; while in the same breath talking about being western and entering the European Union; which is ironic considering the fact that the vast majority of the democratic and western world opposes communism and dictatorships.

Saying Croatian and partizan in the same breath is an oxymoron, a total contradiction and an insult to the brave men and women who throughout the century answered the call of duty to actually fight for a sovereign Croatian state. The "anti-fascist" moreso communist uprising in our neck of the woods, was lead and formed and propagated by the communist party lead by tito, those men were fighting for a federated yugoslavia, not Croatia. A yugoslavia existed prior to the creation of NDH and they fought against Croatia to put it into the greater yugoslav picture, why didn't they fight for a free communist Croatia; why didn't they overthrow the NDH government and replace it with a communist one if they were so Croatian? Why did thousands of men and women have to die in the Croatian homeland war after the succession from yugoslavia which the partizans somehow "liberated" us into.

After the creation of yugoslavia the same "antifascists" took part in the largest European post WW2 massacre to date, these massacres were planned and orchestrated by the very head of the communist regime - this is how communist revolution works, they eliminate all possible threats to their class struggle - not to mention the thousands which would in post 1945 years be imprisoned for something as silly as singing a pro-Croatian song. Not to also forget to mention the +100 UDBA murders in the free and democratic world.

The so-called anti-fascist day is a joke and an embarrassment to Croatia, it will eventually disappear, which it should - such days were thrown into the mix during this past war in order to fight off greaterserbian propaganda.

If tito and partizans were Croatians, simply because a lot, as tito himself was born in Croatia, then so is chetnik pop momcilo djujic, him and his serbian chetniks were by that logic Croatian and fighting for Croatia - to be part of a Greater Serbia, just as the partisans were fighting for it to be part of a greater yugoslavia.

To which I'll respond:

1) I'd like to see Junak provide additional information that the commemoration ceremony was held at the "Jazovka" mass grave at Žumberak. The news bylines I've seen place the ceremony at Brezovica,a suburb of Zagreb, about 30km away.

2) "pro-titoist propaganda" "worshiping a communist dictator" - these kinds of phrases are more histrionics than history.

3) "Saying Croatian and partizan in the same breath is an oxymoron" - well, here are some famous Croatian Partisan Oxymorons:

- The big baddie himself - Josef Broz Tito, born in Kumrovec, Croatia in 1892.
- Franjo Tuđman - first president of Croatia v2.0
- The aforementioned YPA Lt. General Janko Bobetko
- Poets Vladimir Nazor and Ivan Goran Kovačić
- Politician (or Commie apparatchik) Vladimir Bakarić
- Partisan Stjepan Filipović, executed by the Nazis and postumously declared a "people's hero of Yugoslavia"

Junak1929's proclamations of who's is/who isn't permitted to be called a Croatian are chauvanistic equivalents that mimic Dr. Seuss' children's story The Sneeches. Rather than just identifying someones birthplace or regional affiliation, being Croatian is more about ideological and spiritual purity. Them other Sneeches got Commie Stars upon thars.

[Rob - wssob2]

Here's an article from the Croatian news website Javno about the celebrations

from http://www.javno.com/en-croatia/ndh-was ... ate_266947

NDH Was Nor Independent, Nor Croatian, Nor A State

Croatian President Mesic congratulated the Anti-Fascist Struggle Day to Croatian citizens during the central celebration in Brezovica.

BREZOVICA, CROATIA – The central celebration of the Anti-Fascist Struggle Day was marked in Brezovica, Croatia on Monday, near Sisak where the first Sisak Partisan Unit was established on June 22, 1941 – the first armed anti-fascist unit in World War II.

Many state delegations including that of Croatian President Stjepan Mesic, government representative Jadranka Kosor, Parliament vice president Josip Friscic, as well as the delegation of the Croatian Armed Forces General Staff, the city of Sisak, the Sisak-Moslavina County, the Association of Anti-Fascist Soldiers and Anti-Fascists of Croatia, laid down wreaths are lit candles in front of the monument to the First Sisak Partisan Unit.

The delegations paid respects to all anti-fascists and the first anti-fascist unit in Croatia, as well as Europe in World War II.

Last time as state president
Croatian President Stjepan Mesic congratulated the Anti-Fascist Struggle Day to Croatian citizens during the central celebration in Brezovica, saying that by defending anti-fascism, they were defending democracy and creating a guarantee for a better future.

- Therefore we have to be prepared to resist frequent onsets of historic revisionists and anti-communists who got communism, as an idea, mixed up with Bolshevism as practice and anti-fascism in Yugoslavia as a struggle headed by communists. We have to defend the historic truth – President Mesic said.

He specially emphasised that this was his final address in Brezovica as president, announcing that once his term ends, he would fight against historic revisionist and lies about World War II, Josip Broz Tito and Croatian anti-fascism.

- The support of all Croatian citizens inclined towards democracy is necessary – Mesic said, inviting them to a “joint struggle for the preservation of what is valuable and noble in Croatia”.

- Our country is a young one, it was founded on the Croatian Homeland War of Independence in the fight for freedom and independence. Today`s Croatia has nothing to do with the entity which tarnished the Croatian name during World War II, which was responsible for crimes against Serbs, Jews, Romani, Croats anti-fascists and anyone who was suspected of remotely being different. The so-called Independent State of Croatia [NDH] was not an expression of historic aspirations of the Croatian people and today`s Croatia is not its continuation in any way or its resurrection. The so-called HND was nor independent, nor Croatia, nor a state – Croatian President Stjepan Mesic pointed out.

Deputy Croatian PM and Minister of Family, Veterans and Inter-generational Solidarity Jadranka Kosor addressed the rally. She pointed out that members of the First Partisan Unit were Croatian anti-fascists who committed to the values of anti-fascism, who fought for freedom and democracy, for the dignity of every man and the Croatian people and they deserve respect and permanent remembrance.

Any form of flirting with symbols and insignia from the time of evil is inacceptable for the Croatian government and is to be condemned, because there is no justification for hatred, intolerance and extremism. There is no goal which can be justified with crime. – Kosor said.

She also reminded of the Croatian Homeland War of Independence, as many Croatian veterans laid down their lives for freedom, independence and sovereignty of the Croatian state.

Kosor pointed out that Croatia was “firmly and decisively creating its European future, based on the foundations of anti-fascism and the Croatian Homeland War of Independence”.

The deputy PM added it was “the duty and obligation for evil never to be repeated again and for young generations to be taught that universal values like freedom, peace, democracy and tolerance knew no boundaries or time”.

The Independent State of Croatia (NDH) was a puppet state of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy during World War II (1941-1945).

[Hrvat]

There is an old saying in Croatian "konj prije nego crkne,ima najjaci trzaj" (translates roughly into : before a horse dies, it has its strongest jolt) this holds true for president Mesic, and the rest of the pro-yugo orientated political nomenclature that still resides and rules in Croatias institutions/media and like to hide behind the cloak of ' anti fascism' but they are really yugoslavs. Judging by Mesics agressive words and overt hysteric adherence in defending Tito and partizanstvo at Sisak this old saying holds true because he knows his and those like him, their time is up. Lustration policies are coming. Most People in Croatia have moved on and dont want anything to do with the memory of nazism or communism, both totalitarian systems which brought death. It is these very same yugophile forces which through the media continue to foster the divide in Croatian society (this never ending ustasa-partizan battle which act to distract from the real problems in society) and always bring up the non-existant Ustasa boogeyman monsters and pin all of societies ills and problems onto them no matter the issue (a dozen pimple faced teenagers in Ustasa caps are no threat), for all real Ustase are in their last days or were massacred and laying in hundreds of known and unknown karst pits, anti tank ditches, forests and fields across Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Hercegovina, Vojvodina etc...

I believe Tudjman initiated 'anti fascist struggle day' as a strategy to shut up the same forces which continue to tie Croatian statehood as a crime, for that is what the communsit yugo regime tried to do for decades (exagerate crimes 100 fold to i) hide their own crimes ii) use as an instrument to deny the natural right of Croats to their own state). Hell propaganda in 1991 was labeling Tudjman as a Ustasa, while we all known he was a partizan, he just saw (among many others) later in his life that he was dooped and rebelled against the same system he helped create. NDH was the expression of the will of the Croatian people for independence after decades of greater serbian hegemony, cultoricide, and economic exploitation in the first yugo kingdom. As Kardinal Stepinac said "The Croatian nation expressed itself by plebiscite for a Croatian state and i would have been a worthless man had i not felt the pulse of my nation, which was a slave in the former yugoslavia". Did NDH have its imperfections and limitations , YES it was formed in the most difficult of times and did not have the ability to pick its camp and allies (only the axis was against the versailles ordering of europe and thus yugoslavia) but NDH and independent Croatia has no alternative, the alternative was back to yugoslavia (communist or monarchist).

These same yugoslavs to this day are against the Croatian state right, and hide behind the cover of ' anti fascism' . These same ' anti fascists' committed the greatest genocide in Croatian history at Bleiburg (way of the cross and post war massacres). This was NOT an inertia of war, NOT an orgy of revenge and anger for jasenovac as the commis would like to display it, but a planned and ideological necessity (revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat) and way for the communist party of yugoslaiva (kpj) to gain and hold the reigns of power. To gain power the communists had to rid themselves of all known, potential and imagined class enemies of communism through violent repression (state enemies aka PATRIOTIC CROATS who were for a CROATIAN STATE), and these massive liquidations without trial is what they did not only in 1945 but until 1952. Alexander Rankovic says at the assembly in Belgrade February 1 1951 " Through our jails between 1945 and 1951 passed 3,777,776 prisoners, 668,000 were liquidated." This was titos form of ' soft communism' lets not forget the purges (such as Croatian spring in which 32,000 intellectuals lost their livelihoods), the thousands of political processes for the simplest things as displaying a national Croatia flag, singing Croatian songs, saying a joke against the dictator tito (the highest number of political prisoners per capita in the world), the millions exiled into the world through political opression or deliberant economic underdevelopment of ' nationalist regions', or the over 100 udba (yugo secret police) assassinations against Croatian patriots (political enemies) in the FREE WORLD. Tito is not a Croat but a anti-Croat and anational YUGOSLAV who spend his life supressing Croatian national feeling, for did he not say "that the Sava River would flow backwards before Croats ever get their independent country" (22.12.1971)

Thank God he was wrong. Croatia was founded on the defensive homeland war 1991-1995 in which the sons and grandsons of ustase, domobrani, partizani alike threw of the greater serb yugo hegemony for good. If Croatia was founded on the principles of avnoj and partizanstvo then the homeland war would not of been necessary or so bloody. We can thank tito and these so called ' anti fascits' aka yugoslavs, for putting Croatia back into a colonial position in 45' which it had to finally fight a david vs goliath battle out of in 1991. Its just a tragedy that instead of embracing the present and comemorating things such as August 5 when Croatia was liberated in Oluja, those people in Croatia who lived good in those yugo times (those who sold their soul for their kpj membership, and privileged position in society ) still cant come to accept this and reminisss on the ' good old days' and the fight of those who returned us to the artificial communist prison state of yugoslavia, when the resolution of the council of europe called in 2004 for a new paradign calling for not only a clear rejection of nazism but also communism. Until that double standard exists, we will never move forward and the commi political chameleons who rode out the homeland war, changed their jackets retaining their positions will continue to poison society with their nonsense.

[Junak1929]

Junak1929, who's becoming kind of a Mile Budak for the AHF, wrote the following:

I'm flattered; however I highly doubt you know anything about the actual life and works of Mile Budak.

1) I'd like to see Junak provide additional information that the commemoration ceremony was held at the "Jazovka" mass grave at Žumberak. The news bylines I've seen place the ceremony at Brezovica,a suburb of Zagreb, about 30km away.

Brezovica is where the so-called "antifascist" celebration took place for "antifascist" day. Jazovka is a pit where those so-called "antifascists" murdered and threw in thousands of Croatians - soldiers, women children etc. Croatian media outlets which spread out Croatian media in English to the rest of the world obviously want to create good PR for Croatia and tend to ignore the fact that the majority of activity in regards to the day took place in the spot where the so-called liberators murdered people without trial or anything. The Croatian media in Croatia however did not - they showed the "other side" the people at Jazovka including one former Domobran who was telling his little story about the events that occurred there as well as numerous public speakers who called on the Croatian government to acknowledge the truth about the so-called antifascists. The biggest battle they are losing right now is that - there is no doubt that partizans committed unspeakable amounts of criminal killing, mass executions which were planned etc. The funny thing is that to this day, not ONE has served time for any of these killings. NOT ONE, whereas people like the late Dinko Sakic, an Ustasa and commander at the Jasenovac complex freely and willingly surrendered himself to the Croatian judicial system - also the amount of Croatians in the Hauge on trial for war crimes in the homeland war etc - these people have already been sold out by the Croatian government, whereas the same government is defending the communist butchers known as tito's yugoslav partizans; this is obviously an injustice to people who have been either prosecuted in the former yugoslavia or were greatly effected by the war of independence.

"pro-titoist propaganda" "worshiping a communist dictator" - these kinds of phrases are more histrionics than history.

Actually not at all, this is what they are doing. The president himself states that tito can not be pushed forward as a criminal - which he undoubtedly is, because it would "blacken the image of the "so-called" antifascist movement".

"Saying Croatian and partizan in the same breath is an oxymoron" - well, here are some famous Croatian Partisan Oxymorons:

- The big baddie himself - Josef Broz Tito, born in Kumrovec, Croatia in 1892.
- Franjo Tuđman - first president of Croatia v2.0
- The aforementioned YPA Lt. General Janko Bobetko
- Poets Vladimir Nazor and Ivan Goran Kovačić
- Politician (or Commie apparatchik) Vladimir Bakarić
- Partisan Stjepan Filipović, executed by the Nazis and postumously declared a "people's hero of Yugoslavia"

It is precisely an oxymoron, when they were partizans they declared themselves as yugoslavs, and they fought for yugoslavia against Croatia. There is a vast difference between being a Croatian - in today's formal sense, a national Croat; and a Croatian as in a regional sense in the kettle known as yugoslavia.

tito, was never, ever a Croat. He was born in Croatia, that doesn't mean much - so was Pop Momcilo Djujic, Serbian Chetnik leader, he obviously would never consider himself a Croat, tito didn't either. Today it is hard to explain these things because yugoslavia does not exist and people can not formally be yugoslavs, therefor the peoples which made up the yugoslav experiment had to pick a side, especially the Croatian communists; why? Well because Slobodan Milosevic made it clear what the JNA's goals were in the Homeland war of the 90s, they were fighting for a greater Serbia, thus even a yugoslav, who is ethnically a Croat, had to pick a side - fight for Croatia or fight for greater Serbia, not a federated yugoslavia etc.

General Janko Bobetko, Tudman etc Spegelj if you will, were all not only partizans, communists and yugoslavs - but they later became Croatian nationalists; Janko Bobetko; if you read his books, would even tell his soldiers in this past war of independence to sing "Jure and Boban" (Ustasa song about Jure Francetic and Rafael Boban, leaders of the Black Legion) because "they fought for Croatia as you all are today". Tudman was an opportunist, his first option was a confederated yugoslavia, but when he saw it wasn't happening he saw a way to become even bigger than one of the men which he admired until his very last living day: tito. Tudman needed Ustasa rhetoric etc to cover up his black-red past. He used it to push for the idea of Croatian national unity, grandsons of both Ustase and partizans fighting for a free and democratic Croatia - by being a partizan himself and using this rhetoric, many people believed he was sincere, which gained him vast widespread support in Croatian emigree circles, where he would later gather millions of dollars, a few ministers, especially his defense minister, the late Gojko Susak: a pizzaman from Ottawa Ontario.

They had to pick a side, their boat known as yugoslavia was sinking, and everyone saw this in the 70s after the Croatian Spring movement, which Tudman himself participated in and went to jail - prior to, he lived luxuriously in Belgrade, his first 19 books were in Serbian, he was the president of the Serbian football club partizan which still exists today, even his son Miroslav, who is going to be running for Croatian president in the upcoming election - was born in Belgrade Serbia.

Vladimir Nazor, was a pan-slavic Croat, thus yugoslav, he considered Croats to be slavs along with the serbs etc, the bases of the yugoslav idea primarily, check out his book "Slavenske legende" "Slavic Legends".

Stjepan Filipovic was a prime example of a yugoslav, he was a partizan, a pre-war communist party member, loved yugoslavia, the idea of yugoslavia and evne died for it - when they were hanging him he yelled out "Smrt Fasizmu Sloboda narodu!" "Death to fascism, freedom to the people!" (partizan motto) he did not die yelling "long live Croatia and or the Croatian people" - when you say freedom to the people in e yugoslav sense, you mean bring back yugoslavia and free all of the slavs etc.

Today you can classify them as ethnic "Croats" i guess, but this is because someone wants to take credit for them, and heartfelt closet yugoslavs such as Croatian president Stipe Mesic like to remember these people and the "good old days".

[Junak1929]

Junak1929's proclamations of who's is/who isn't permitted to be called a Croatian are chauvanistic equivalents that mimic Dr. Seuss' children's story The Sneeches. Rather than just identifying someones birthplace or regional affiliation, being Croatian is more about ideological and spiritual purity. Them other Sneeches got Commie Stars upon thars.

Your assumptions are a typical North American mixup in the notions of national identity. To many, if you are born in a givin entity, for example America, you are an American. This is a notion usually referred to as civic nationalism.

Borders change, nations usually stay the same - if you want to get technical, according to your logic - tito was born in Austro-Hungary (that's what it was then) which would thus make him ? Austro-Hungarian ? Who is and or was Croatian ? People born from 1941-1945 or from 1991 - present ? Obviously not. Being Croatian is like being anything else, you are that because you feel that, you affiliate with the culture, language customs of a given nation etc. Traditionally, Croatians are a very Roman Catholic people, some prior to were also of Islamic faith - that obviously changed in recent times - being a yugoslav and a communist meant being against religon, thus you lose a huge portion of Croatian national heritage as many things are directly tied to a religious event/tradition. Being a yugoslav meant indulging in the other cultures of the so-called yugoslavia and it meant speaking "serbo-croatian" - a made up language which was generally a mixture of both Serbian and Croatian. Thus a yugoslav would then have different cultural, linguistic ties etc to some non existent entity, wheras a Croat would not.

[grom1941]

There is a very simple question (which I believe has been asked before in this forum):

If Croatia was liberated in 1945, why did Croatia need liberating again in 1990s?

This question is so simple but I have never seen a single, logical answer - just communist propaganda rants about anti-fascism.

This whole anti-fascist day idea is totally debunked with this one simple question, in my opinion!

The truth is that there was nothing anti-fascist about the yugoslav terror of 1945 and beyond, it was simply anti-croat and those who were a part of this anti-croat regime have invented this anti-fascist idea to try and justify their past.

The Independent State of Croatia was not the result of the decision, the wish or the actions of Italian Fascists or German Nazis, rather it was the result of the long struggle of the Croatian people, a struggle everyone knew about but nobody was prepared to support. At a historic moment, on Croatian soil, four separate interests, those of Croatia, Germany, Hungary, and Italy, became intertwined; four dissimilar interests, coinciding in one aspect; the convenience of recognizing the Croatian State because it represented a mutually acceptable territorial solution.

[gorskizdrug]

I thought I'd split this off from the NDH-symbolism-pop-culture thread since its a separate topic.

DamirGS was kind enough to point out

Just a little remainder, today is 22.06. national holiday in Croatia.

Anti-Fascist Struggle Day is a celebration in Croatia of the uprising of Croatian Antifascist partisans against German and Italian occupying forces in 1941 near Sisak, Croatia. It is celebrated on June 22.

To which gorskizdrug responded:

So called uprising was in fact act of terorism, couple of bandits raised arms against legitimate gouverment.
They actually killed from behind two members of Gendarmerie ( Oružničtva ) and escaped in woods!!
It was the first day of " uprising "! Interesting thing; they uprised the same day Germany attacked Soviet Union, how come they did not " uprise " immediately after Yugoslavia was attacked in April, or May!!??
My point is: it was not uprising of Croatian Antifascist partisans, it was rebelion of a few communists against legitimate gouverment orchestrated from Kominterna and Soviet Union.

One more thing, the same partisans you are glorify were Chetnich allies during 1941, and I dont mean allies of some mountain militia, I mean official allies of Draža Mihajlović Army in Homeland which had famous anti Croat program!

I think gorskizdrug has a couple of his facts wrong:

1) The "legitimate government" at the time of the uprising was the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, with a government-in-exile located in London. The "independent state of Croatia" was a puppet (i.e. powerless, not independent) government appointed by Nazi Germany and fascist Italy.

2) The terrorists/freedom fighters (choose whichever label based on whatever side of the ideological divide you're on) didn't have to fight in April 1941, because the Yugoslav Army was doing the fighting. That army was quickly defeated by the Nazis.

3) It is true that it wasn't until the Soviet Union was invaded that Croatian Partisans began the "armed struggle" (to use a term of the day). The Yugoslav Communists began organizing the Partisan movement after June 22, 1941. The KPJ (the Yugoslav Communist Party) proclaimed the "National Liberation Army of Yugoslavia" (the technical name for the Partisans - abbreviated NOVJ) on June 27th. In the summer of 1941 Partisan detachments sprang up at Mount Kopaonik in Serbia, in the Bosnian town of Tulza, Montenegro and of course the aforementioned Croatian Partisan detachment.

4) Those "few Communists" eventually became the 1st Sisak Partisan Detachment, named after the Croatian town near where they were formed.

One of its original members was a guy named Janko Bobetko, a Croatian veterinary student whose father and three brothers were killed by the NDH.

His career is a textbook study in the tangled web of Yugoslav history: Bobetko survived WWII, rising up the ranks, becoming a general in the postwar Yugoslav People's Army. He was sacked from his job in the 1970's due to his sympathies with Croatian Communists who had a more independent/nationalist streak. However, in the early 1990's he rejoined active service as the Southern Front commander for Croatia v2.0. He oversaw the 1993 offensive against the Krajina Serb territory, during which units under his command allegedly committed war crimes against civilians. Under indictement for said war crimes, Bobetko refused to surrender to the International Criminal Tribunal but died (fortunately for the Croatian government) before the wheels of extradition could get grinding.

5) As for the Partisans being allies of the Chetniks, yes, at certain times among certain units, Partisans did operate uneasily or have cease-fires with the Chetniks. And at other times under different circumstances, the Partisans and the Chetniks fought each other mercilessly. Whatever temporary allegiances they had were short in duration and due to local circumstances.

Rob!

First of all NDH was not a puppet state, it was recognized from a half of the known world at that time! As you know the world was back than divided in political blocks like it is now in 2009.!!!
Yet you are not gone say that UK is a puppet of USA! Think I made a point here.

Actuall war in April lasted just one week, for Royal Army fought only Serbians and nobody else, communists had plenty of time to organize resistance, to collect weapons and war material, yet they are sitting and waiting what will their great uncle from USSR will say for 2 months!!!

If I am saying "few communists" it was exactly as i said!! Communist Party of Yugoslavia (KPJ) had 2500 members in 1941. Kingdom of Yugoslavia had in 1941. around 16 000 000 citizens. Do you really think communists represented something in that time, I would compare them with Baader-Meinhof group and RAF in Western Germany before 35 years.a
And yes, uprising started as I said, they shoot in back two members of Gendarmerie, it is historical fact, even members of so called Sisak detachment are not deny that.
Probably you dont know less known fact, Stalin was actually fun of the idea of Communist Party of NDH ( Stalin had his own interest ), but so called Croatian communists refused, if they were true Croatians as they like to highlight now they would except this idea of their Great Uncle. My point is that so co called Antifascists movement was a big trick how
to deceive Croatian and other nations on the teritory of former Yugoslavia. Their idea of antifasism was just a big fraud, communists organized so called peoples front and invited all like they said progressive and open minded people of various political orientations to participate in the struggle against Germans and their "collaborators". Only struggle communists fought was a struggle to gain power during and after the war! During the war they "dischared" systematically political opponents within their movement, and after the war I will tell you one nice story: my grandfather was in so called election commity during first elections in "free Yugoslavia" little bit after the war, people had two options to be for the "peoples front" or for the pro western option represented by Mr. Šubašić, so there were two boxes and people were electing by putting rubber ball in desired box. After the election place closed jeep came with 3 soldiers communists, the pro western box was almost full of balls, so they took it and they put almost all balls in communists box, they left just few balls( probably to show that opposition which need to be destroyed exists) in it. Than they sealed boxes and took them in to the bigger willage for counting. For you Rob this might be a bed time story but things handled that way when "antifascists" were handeling things on Balkans!! I took the liberty of checking out your posts on this web site and I havent seen that you wrote something about nazis in other parts of Europe, former SS troops are still marching in some countries members of EU, yet you are not writing about their bet-noir!


About cooperation between Chetnics and Partisans I suggest you read Jozo Tomasević - Chetnics, the author was a Croatian whose political convictions were Yugoslav but he wrote really non sided book.
For the Mile Budak remark, you have a sence of humor I will give you that!

[Rob - wssob2]

Hi gorskizdrug,

First of all NDH was not a puppet state, it was recognized from a half of the known world at that time!

See the thread "Which countries recognized NDH?" at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 4&t=150885

There were roughly 100 countries in the world in 1941 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participan ... rld_War_II) of which 12 or 13 recognized the NDH.

That's half the known world? :roll:

[Junak1929]

Methinks when you tie in his "two political blocks" point - the world was at war, there were two sides, the one side recognized, the other didn't and continued to recognize a non existing entity.