Seeking Info about why Bosniak/Muslims joined Ustasa

[zz000ter]

Hello,

I believe that history is a set of ACTION - EFFECT - REACTION situations
One party does something, the other party suffers and effect and reacts.

The Ustasa phenomenon was a reaction to Greater Serbianism and attacks on Croats and Bosnians

I read somewhere that the people to throw the first punch in BiH were the Serbs. For decades they had been after the lands owned by Muslim landowners. At the start of WW2 they actively went out and killed a large number of Muslim landowners.

At that time the Muslims did not have military training or weapons and so they joined the SS and Ustase to defend themselves from the Serbs.

I can't find that reference anymore - but if this is true then it puts everything into much better context.

Can anyone tell me if this is accurate?
Where can I find a reference for this?

[Dr Eisvogel]

Hello,

I believe that history is a set of ACTION - EFFECT - REACTION situations
One party does something, the other party suffers and effect and reacts.

The Ustasa phenomenon was a reaction to Greater Serbianism and attacks on Croats and Bosnians

I read somewhere that the people to throw the first punch in BiH were the Serbs. For decades they had been after the lands owned by Muslim landowners. At the start of WW2 they actively went out and killed a large number of Muslim landowners.

At that time the Muslims did not have military training or weapons and so they joined the SS and Ustase to defend themselves from the Serbs.

I can't find that reference anymore - but if this is true then it puts everything into much better context.

Can anyone tell me if this is accurate?
Where can I find a reference for this?

Hello,

I would recommend you to read an article by Edin Mutapčić from the Faculty of Law of University of Tuzla in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

The title is: Pravno-historijski kontekst agrarne reforme u BiH poslije Prvog svjetskog rata (Juridico-historical context of the agrarian reform in Bosnia and Herzegovina after the First World War)
http://hrcak.srce.hr/74666

You'll note that on page 10 there is data about the land confiscated from (mainly Muslim) landowners (beys/begovi) to be distributed to the former serfs.

Land confisacated:
1.) Beylik (begluk) land -> 400 072 ha
2.) Serf farmsteads (kmetska selišta) -> 775 233 ha
Total confiscated land -> 1 175 305 hectares

The entire surface of available land in Bosnia and Herzegovina was 5 102 700 hectares (p. 11), so you can calculate that 23,03% of the available land changed hands in the period 1919-1922. However, 925 147 hectares or 52,8% of the total 1 753 488 hectares of arable land was confiscated (p. 11) at the same time.

From these data you can see that in 1941 there were no big Muslim landholdings (except the forests) left, since the big Muslim landowners were already disowned by 1922, so the factors in Muslims joining Ustashe was different from what you suggested.

It was :
a) resentment from having been governed (and massacred, maltreated and humiliated) by Serbs, whom they perceived as their former serfs, in the period 1918-1941.
Let's not forget the oppression by the Ottoman Turks (read: Bosnian Muslims) on the BiH Christians (Catholic Croats and Orthodox Serbs) during the 19th century, which resulted in 1875-1878 BiH (Christian) Uprising, which resulted in Austro-Hungarian occupation of 1878 and sophisticated A-H policy of divide and rule practised between 1878-1914.
Also in 1912/13 Serbians massacred Sanjak Muslims, in 1914-1918 the Serbs were persecuted by A-H authorities after the Sarajevo assassination.
In the period 1918-1924 there were massacres of Muslims in Eastern Herzegovina and Sanjak and a radical agrarian reform unlike anywhere in the Kingdom of SCS - to the Muslim detriment.

b) adjusting to the radical change in government - obviously the Muslim elite decided to accept the courting done by the Ustashe seeing the opportunity for payback to the Serbs.
Many of the Muslim elite also participated in the Serb-dominated governments of Kingdom of Yugoslavia, so the situation is not black and white.

c) the attacks in April War of 1941 by Serb-dominated and disintegrating Royal Yugoslav Army elements were attested in Herzegovina, but they were not a general rule in whole of Bosnia and Herzegovina

You'll also note in Mutapčić's Summary that he claims that there was no agrarian reform in Serbia, but he forgets to explain that unlike in Bosnia and Herzegovina, there were no feudal remains in Serbia, due to a different history in the 19th century.

The recruitment for the 13th SS Division started only in 1943, so it doesn't have any direct connection with the situation in April of 1941, when NDH was created and the reasons why Muslims joined the Ustashe ranks in 1941.

Regarding military training, it's true that the Serb-dominated armed movements in 1941 like Chetniks and Communist Partisans included a significant number of former officers and NCO's of the Royal Yugoslav Army and that Ustashe generally lacked qualified military men.

Regards,
Eisvogel

[G. Trifkovic]

Also in 1912/13 Serbians massacred Sanjak Muslims

According to both Mustafa Imamovic (Historija Bosnjaka, Sarajevo: Preporod, 1998, p. 458-9) and Mehmedalija Bojic (Historija Bosne i Bosnjaka, Sarajevo: TKD Sahinpasic, 2001, p. 152-3), the Serbian Army behaved in a thoroughly correct way when it occupied the north-eastern part of Sandzak in 1912. It was the Montenegrins, rather than the Serbs, who committed atrocities against the local Muslims. Apart from mass murder and plunder, the Sandzak Muslims were also subjected to forced conversion to Christianity. The things got better only in May of 1913, after King Nikola intervened resolutely in order to redress some of the wrongs committed by his compatriots.

Cheers,

G.

[Dr Eisvogel]

Also in 1912/13 Serbians massacred Sanjak Muslims

According to both Mustafa Imamovic (Historija Bosnjaka, Sarajevo: Preporod, 1998, p. 458-9) and Mehmedalija Bojic (Historija Bosne i Bosnjaka, Sarajevo: TKD Sahinpasic, 2001, p. 152-3), the Serbian Army behaved in a thoroughly correct way when it occupied the north-eastern part of Sandzak in 1912. It was the Montenegrins, rather than the Serbs, who committed atrocities against the local Muslims. Apart from mass murder and plunder, the Sandzak Muslims were also subjected to forced conversion to Christianity. The things got better only in May of 1913, after King Nikola intervened resolutely in order to redress some of the wrongs committed by his compatriots.

Cheers,

G.

According to Sulejman Aličković Heroji svog naroda, banditi za tadašnje vlasti http://ligazasandzak.org/kulturni-centar-sandzak/heroji-svog-naroda-i-banditi-za-tadasnje-vlasti/ there is an article in New York Times published on December 31st 1912 about a massacre of 950 distinguished Bosniak Muslims in Sjenica (in Sanjak) by the Serbian Army under command of General Živković. The alleged source is the doctor/medic of the Red Cross.

In the meantime I tried to do the search through New York Time search engine, however to no avail. It's hard to guess how did the NYT write General Živković's surname. Gen. Mihailo Živković is in question.

But, it seems the data is confirmed by the book published in 1913 in Vienna, Leo Freundlich: Albaniens Golgatha - Anklageakten gegen die Vernichter des Albanervolkes
http://fondiplaveguci.com/golgotha.html On the provided link the data is in the chapter: "Mass murders". It mentions that 950 are "General Zivkovic had massacred 950 Albanian at Sjenica and Turkish notables, after ten thousand Albanians the advance of Serbian troops had prepared for big trouble."
It seems Freundlich's source is "The famous war correspondent Hermenegild Wagner reported from Zemun on 20 November 1912"

But as said earlier the "Turks" can easily be Slavic-speaking Muslims and obviously nowadays some Bosniaks, such as Sulejman Aličković a local ethnologist from Sanjak, consider the killed their own victims, while others - such as Imamović and Bojić from Bosnia and Herzegovina probably treat them as Albanians.

Regards,
Eisvogel

[G. Trifkovic]

In the meantime I tried to do the search through New York Time search engine, however to no avail. It's hard to guess how did the NYT write General Živković's surname. Gen. Mihailo Živković is in question.

They spelled it "Zsovkovitch" as evident from the two articles from 1912

http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch/#/zsovkovitch

There are no hits for 31 December 1912 for "Sjenica", "Sanjak" or "Zsovkovitch" (or "Zhivkovich). However, it's possible that the archives are not complete or that there is some problem with the search function.

Both Imamovic and Bojic speak only of "Muslims", without giving details on their ethnicity. One way or the other, I doubt that the two authors would fail to mention the atrocities committed by the Serbs. While searching for further details I ran into

http://www.crisisgroup.org/~/media/Files/europe/162_serbia_s_sandzak_still_forgotten.ashx

The authors claim that the Muslims from the Sandzak town of Tutin even requested that the Serbian army occupy the town and replace the Montenegrins (p. 4). If true, it would confirm the statements of both Imamovic and Bojic.

Of course, it is not my attention to deny that no crimes at all were committed by the Serbian Army during the occupation of Sandzak. We would, however, require additional sources in order to have further, fact-based discussion on that topic.

Quite lengthy off-topic excursion, but was probably worth it.

Cheers,

G.

[zz000ter]

Dr Eisvogel and G. Trifkovic - thank you for the info.
Much appreciated.

In my research I also found this - that the Serbs in WW2 made the first shots

1. The Chetniks existed far longer than did the Ustasa

2. Serbs began with masacress in Croatian villages near Mostar: Ilići and Cim, at April 10, 1941 ( on the day when NDH is proclaimed in Zagreb, so no atrocities by Ustaše could be made simply because most of Ustaše were still in Italy ).


Chetnik units, which were part of the regular army of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia and were designated for "special actions", and individual Chetnik commanders, during the Derventa retreat, killed 17 Croatian civilians, five women among them on April 11-13, 1941; killed three Croatian women, a young girl among them on April 11 in Siveric; on April 9, 28-29, killed three Croatian civilians and wounded one near Bjelovar; from April 13-15, killed 20 Croatians, 5 Muslims and burned 40 houses near Capljina; on April 15, killed 5 Croatian civilians, one woman among them near Mostar, and burned down the Croatian villages of Cim and Ilici. Such murders occurred in other places indicating what was to soon follow.

on June 30, 1941, Stevan Moljevic, one of the main Chetnik ideologists and national leaders, formed the project, "Homogeneous Serbia", in which the Chetnik program regarding borders, the social system and foreign policy of Greater Serbia in the re-established Yugoslavia were outlined. The project proposes that "... today the first and fundamental responsibility is imposed upon Serbians: to create and organize a homogeneous Serbia which will encompass the entire ethnic territory in which Serbians live...." This meant annexing Bosnia and Herzegovina and a greater part of Croatia to Serbia through "migration and transfer of inhabitants" and cleansing. All this was expressed cartographically in a special propaganda leaflet together with a corresponding text.

In July and the beginning of August 1941, a general Serbian rebellion occurred in almost all of the B-H and Croatian territory where the population was predominantly Serbian. The chief initiators and leaders of the rebellion were leaders of the Communist Party, and this the CK KP (Central Committee of the Communist Party) in Croatia and the Regional Committee of the KPJ (Communist Party of Yugoslavia) for Bosnia and Herzegovina as parts of the CK KPJ, even though there were places where the rebellion occurred spontaneously, and some places where Chetniks themselves headed the rebellion. At that time and in those regions, it was the Serbian population which almost exclusively participated in the rebellion. There were only some individuals and smaller groups of other nationalities, primarily members of KPJ and SKOJ (League of Communist Youth of Yugoslavia), who were involved in the rebellion. The crimes of the Ustasa Regime against the Serbian people were stressed as the main reasons for the rebellion with the goal of overthrowing the NDH and the re-establishment of Yugoslavia.

At the same time, a group of Serbian nationalists who had escaped from Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia into the annexed part of Dalmatia and linked itself with the Italian government, sent the Italian government in Rome a petition asking for the Italian army to occupy and annex Bosnia and Herzegovina, Dalmatia, Lika, Kordun, and Banija, and to overthrow the NDH government in those territories.8 The Italian government used this for its expansionist pretensions and pressures on NDH in negotiations upon the outbreak of the rebellion, as well as for negotiations, cooperation and organization of Chetniks on its annexed and occupied territory in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia.

From the beginning until the end of the war, members of the Chetnik movement intentionally equated the entire Croatian and Muslim people with the Ustasa Regime by accusing them of the Ustasa crimes against Serbians in the NDH with an attempt to justify their own crimes using these formal reasons. The Chetnik movement was comprised of armed and political organizations which appeared on NDH territory shortly after the capitulation of Yugoslavia and the proclamation of the NDH and was active until the end of the war.

From HDA,ZKRZ GUZ no. 5228/46, box 144; Ministry of Foreign Affairs NDH, No.V.T. 320/1942, box 3:

[michael mills]

Very interesting post by zzOOOter.

It shows that the history of the territories comprising the former Yugoslavia during the Second World War is vastly more complicated than the simplistic picture of "good" Titoist partisans and Serbs versus "bad" Croatians that is generally served up in the media.

I know that the NDH Government, although comprised mainly of Catholics, attempted to solve the problem of the large Serb Orthodox population in its territory by creating a Croatian Orthodox Church, to which its Orthodox population was compelled to belong.

That attempt was based on the historical truth that the national identity of Orthodox populations was determined by the particular national Orthodox Church to which they adhered. Thus, "Serbs" had that particular identity owing to their adherence to the Serbian Orthodox Church based in Belgrade, and essentially a creation of the Serbian state.

During the period of Ottoman rule in Bosnia-Hercegovina and Dalmatia, the entire Orthodox population of those areas was considered by the Ottoman Government to belong to Millet-i-Rum, the Greek Orthodox community subject to the Patriarch of Constantinople. Thus, in the eyes of the Ottoman Government, they were not "Serbs".

After first Dalmatia and then Bosnia-Hercegovina came under Habsburg rule, the new rulers created churches for the Orthodox population that were separate from both the Patriarchate of Constantinople, which was controlled by the Ottoman Government, and the Serbian Orthodox Church, controlled by the Serbian Government.

The Orthodox population of Dalmatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina really only became "Serb" in 1918, when it was compulsority joined to the Serbian Orthodox Church. The NDH Government was trying to reverse that process by setting up a Croatian Orthodox Church, with the idea that the Orthodox population of the NDH would become Croatians who were Orthodox by religion, rather than members of a Serb ethnic group. In that respect the NDH Government was following the pattern set by its predecessors.

The hostility between Serbs and Muslims goes right back to the early 19th Century, when an independent Serb state broke away from Ottoman rule. At that time, there was a large Muslim population in Serbia proper, and Belgrade was a largely Muslim town.

The newly independent Serb state followed a policy of ethnic cleansing, persecuting and driving out almost its entire Muslim population, a large part of which fled west into Bosnia-Hercegovina, creating a Muslim majority there.

The existence of a large Muslim population in Bosnia-Hercegovina today is due to the fact that that territory passed directly from Ottoman to Habsburg rule, with the latter pursuing a policy of religious tolerance that allowed the Muslims to thrive. If Bosnia-Hercegovina had been annexed by Serbia in the 1870s, there can be little doubt that the Muslim population would have been driven out.

Given the long history of Serbian Government persecution of Muslims ever since the creation of a modern independent Serbia, it is no wonder that Yugoslav Muslims supported any power that would overthrow Serbian domination. The memory of their benevolent treatment under Habsburg rule before 1918 perhaps made the Muslims more partial toward Croatia, which had been an integral part of the Habsburg state, and furthermore was now allied to Germany, the heir to the Habsburg state.

[vathra]

Dr Eisvogel and G. Trifkovic - thank you for the info.
Much appreciated.

In my research I also found this - that the Serbs in WW2 made the first shots

1. The Chetniks existed far longer than did the Ustasa

2. Serbs began with masacress in Croatian villages near Mostar: Ilići and Cim, at April 10, 1941 ( on the day when NDH is proclaimed in Zagreb, so no atrocities by Ustaše could be made simply because most of Ustaše were still in Italy ).


Chetnik units, which were part of the regular army of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia and were designated for "special actions", and individual Chetnik commanders, during the Derventa retreat, killed 17 Croatian civilians, five women among them on April 11-13, 1941; killed three Croatian women, a young girl among them on April 11 in Siveric; on April 9, 28-29, killed three Croatian civilians and wounded one near Bjelovar; from April 13-15, killed 20 Croatians, 5 Muslims and burned 40 houses near Capljina; on April 15, killed 5 Croatian civilians, one woman among them near Mostar, and burned down the Croatian villages of Cim and Ilici. Such murders occurred in other places indicating what was to soon follow.:

Now compare these events, with this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jadovno_concentration_camp
Camp was established on April 11. (day after proclamation of NDH), and in following months up to thousand people daily were transported and killed there. Dr Zatezalo, based on railway transport documents, counted around 40 thousand people transported to Jadovno. Up to 1991. war he managed to find names of around 10 thousand people murdered there. Some croatian critics of Dr Zatezalo's work estimated that number of transported people is smaller - but still more than 20 thousand.

Also note that after 4 months of work, Italians moved to areas of NDH incl. Jadovno and closed it, so NDH authorities made purpose built death camp at Jasenovac.

Now compare this with wartime incidents you listed, and please explain me what do you mean by "Serbs made first shots".

[michael mills]

Let us hope that this thread does not degenerate into the usual Serbs vs. Croats catfight.

[vathra]

Let us hope that this thread does not degenerate into the usual Serbs vs. Croats catfight.

It is rather strange that this statement comes from person who writes following:

I know that the NDH Government, although comprised mainly of Catholics, attempted to solve the problem of the large Serb Orthodox population in its territory by creating a Croatian Orthodox Church, to which its Orthodox population was compelled to belong.

It does seem strange that it is omited that previous attempts of NDH authorities to "solve the problem of the large Serb Orthodox population" were creation of death camps, destruction of entire villages, expulsion of several hundred thousand serbs, forced conversion to catholicism, and finally creation of Croatian orthodox church.

Also, please explain why do you call orthodox population of Austro-hungary "Serbs".

[David Thompson]

vathra -- The topic here is why Bosniak/Muslims joined Ustasa. Please stay on it.

[waldzee]

Let us hope that this thread does not degenerate into the usual Serbs vs. Croats catfight.

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If youare looking for something completely different Mr Mills, I 'm always ready to discuss Bollywood Nazi movies with you... http://movies.sulekha.com/hindi/gandhi- ... ures/1.htm

[michael mills]

I guess the role of Hitler is being played by a genuine (Indo-)Aryan.

I wonder if Hitler had the same low opinion of Gandhi that Churchill did.

[waldzee]

I guess the role of Hitler is being played by a genuine (Indo-)Aryan.

I wonder if Hitler had the same low opinion of Gandhi that Churchill did.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I thought the Indian field marshalls resembled Hermann Goring - around the belt line.
Back on topic, th e'Kingdom of the South Slavs' wss ,like the Danzig Free State, a tragic fantasy of Versailles waiting to happen. A loose Hapsburg federation of States made much more sense.