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Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

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Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

Postby Cvitković on 23 May 2012 01:21

Hi there,

I'm interested in obtaining any information on the relationship between the NDH and the Vatican City, both pre the breakup of Yugoslavia and during the time of NDH. Did the Vatican City recognize NDH, how (if he was at all) involved was Pope Pius XII with the Roman Catholic state? Any info would be great!
Also I watched a documentary some time ago now about "ratlines" with notorious Nazi's and other fascists escaping through the help of the Vatican? How organized were these ratlines and which Nazi and fascist members escaped? Any information about this too would be great. Thanks for you're time.
Last edited by Andy H on 23 May 2012 23:42, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Embellished the thread title

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Re: Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

Postby Dr Eisvogel on 24 May 2012 13:01

Cvitković wrote:Hi there,

I'm interested in obtaining any information on the relationship between the NDH and the Vatican City, both pre the breakup of Yugoslavia and during the time of NDH. Did the Vatican City recognize NDH, how (if he was at all) involved was Pope Pius XII with the Roman Catholic state? Any info would be great! Also I watched a documentary some time ago now about "ratlines" with notorious Nazi's and other fascists escaping through the help of the Vatican? How organized were these ratlines and which Nazi and fascist members escaped? Any information about this too would be great. Thanks for you're time.


1.) The Holy See (Vatican) never recognized NDH. It maintained diplomatic relations with the Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Ambassador Niko Mirošević-Sorgo and Secretary and later Chargé d'affaires Nikola Moscatello (http://www.tomislavjonjic.iz.hr/hrv_vanj_pol_IV.pdf, p.17) throughout the war, until Kingdom of Yugoslavia (that is its Royal Government-in-exile) merged with the Communist Democratic Federative Yugoslavia and from that time on it mainatianed diplomatic relations with the successor state - DFY.

2.) NDH wasn't "the Roman Catholic State". It just had the Roman Catholic majority of population, the Catholic Church (including Roman and Greek) being one of the recognized religious communities along with the Islamic Community, Evangelical (Lutheran) Church, Croatian Orthodox Church, Jewish Community etc.

3.) The Holy See (Pius XII) appointed on June 14th 1941 (http://www.tomislavjonjic.iz.hr/hrv_vanj_pol_IV.pdf, p.18) abbot Giuseppe Ramiro Marcone the papal legate to the episcopate of the Catholic Church in NDH. He arrived to Zagreb on August 3rd 1941. His secreatry was Giuseppe Carmelo Masucci. They did visit NDH authorities and tried to intervene for persecuted individuals and groups. The papal legate Marcone met with Josip Broz Tito in June of 1945, which confirms his status as the legate to episcopate and not as representative to NDH. Tko je tko u NDH, pp. 254-255

4.) Regarding the help to refugees:
http://www.studiacroatica.org/jero/luki1.htm

Regards,
Eisvogel

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Re: Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

Postby kiseli on 24 May 2012 14:12

2.) NDH wasn't "the Roman Catholic State". It just had the Roman Catholic majority of population, the Catholic Church (including Roman and Greek) being one of the recognized religious communities along with the Islamic Community, Evangelical (Lutheran) Church, Croatian Orthodox Church, Jewish Community etc.


Jewish Community was recognized religious community in NDH?

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Re: Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

Postby Dr Eisvogel on 24 May 2012 21:04

kiseli wrote:
2.) NDH wasn't "the Roman Catholic State". It just had the Roman Catholic majority of population, the Catholic Church (including Roman and Greek) being one of the recognized religious communities along with the Islamic Community, Evangelical (Lutheran) Church, Croatian Orthodox Church, Jewish Community etc.


Jewish Community was recognized religious community in NDH?


Yes, in many towns the Jewish Communities (Židovske općine, or in the documents from NDH period -> Židovske obćine) existed and through them the humanitarian effort was conducted by the Jews to help those members who were interned in concentration camps.

However, due to the racial persecution of the Jews and deportation to the concentration camps they mostly ceased to exist or function by 1943, altthough some authors claim that the Jewish Community of Zagreb continued its activities in 1944. I can't confirm it.

Example is the Jewish Community of Zagreb. On their web-site http://www.zoz.hr/home.php?content=content&term=10&key=3&key1=10 they say:
"Od 3. do 5. 5. 1943. oko 1.500 zagrebačkih Židova, zajedno s rabinom dr. Miroslavom Šalomom Freibergerom i predsjednik dr. Hugom Konom, deportirano u Auschwitz. Poslije toga nema deportacija. U Zagrebu je preživjelo oko 800 osoba, bilo „zaštićenih Židova“, bilo skrivenih, bilo u mješovitim brakovima."


Translation: "From 3rd to 5th of May of 1943 about 1500 Zagreb Jews, together with Rabbi dr. Miroslav Shalom Freiberger and President dr. Hugo Kohn, were deported to Auschwitz. After that there are no deportations. In Zagreb about 800 Jews survived, either "protected", or hidden, or in the mixed marriages."

and

"Zagrebačka općina opstaje u NDH u uvjetima najgore represije; 1941. s aškenaskom općinom spajaju se ortodoksna i sefardska općina."


Translation: "The Zagreb Community manages to survive in NDH in the conditions of the worst repression; in 1941 the Orthodox and Sephardic Communities merge with the Ashkenazi Community."

On May 28th 1943 in Geneva Jean Etienne Schwarzenberg, member of the ICRC Secretariat sent a letter to Saly Mayer, president of the Union of Swiss Jewish Communities of the Swiss Confederation and JDC (American Joint Distribution Committee) representative in Switzerland, where he mentions the deportation of president dr. Hugo Kohn and Rabbi Freiberger and mentions that the remaining leadership of the Community are members of the mixed marriages.

Quote:
"Der bisherige Praesident Dr. Hugo Kohn und der Oberrabbiner Dr. Freiberger befinden sich ebenfalls unter derjenigen, welche nach dem Ausland verbracht wurden.

Der zurueckgebliebene Vorstand der Gemeinde (Angehoerige von Mischehen) bittet dringend, Herrn Saly Mayer die nachtraeglichen und laufenden Unterstuetzungen so bald als moeglich zuzusenden, da in der jetzigen Situation diese Mittel von groesster Notwendigkeit sind."
(Sorry, because of the lack of German diacritical signs).
Archive: ACICR, G 59/2/151 - 15 (27.04.1943.-09.11.1943.) Group G; Generalites: affaires operationelles (1939-1950), Israelites, Secours et questions de principe, Secours a la Croatie, 27.04.1943.-18.07.1945. (Sorry, I don't have French diacritical signs on my keyboard)
The document was published in: Veze Međunarodnog odbora Crvenog križa i Nezavisne Države Hrvatske, Dokumenti, Knjiga I., Sl. Brod - Zagreb - Jasenovac, 2009., p. 72

Another report in the cited book from May 12th 1943 written by Julius Schmidlin, the ICRC delagate in NDH and sent to Saly Mayer explains the Jewish organization in the NDH as exposed to him by Hugo Kohn and says that after on April 12th 1941 the premises of Jewish Community in Zagreb were sealed by NDH authorities, the Community resumed activity in May after NDH authorities appointed new administration of the Community and it resumed its activity with religious services, school education and social security tasks.
Archive: ACICR, G 59/2/151 - 15 (27.04.1943.-09.11.1943.) Group G; Generalites: affaires operationelles (1939-1950), Israelites, Secours et questions de principe, Secours a la Croatie, 27.04.1943.-18.07.1945. (Again the same source as previous).
Quote:
"Am 16. Mai 1941. wurde von der Direktion der Ustachenpolizei, Juedische Sektion, eine solche fuer Zagreb ernannt mit der Aufgabe die Gemeindetaetigkeit wieder aufzunehmen. Das baschlagnahmte Vermoegen wurde jedoch der ernanten Leitung nicht ausgefolgt. Sie stand nun von der schweren Aufgabe Mittel und Wege zu finden um den ihr zugewiesenen Aufgaben nachzukommen.Wenn auch Gottesdienst und Schulwesen von Neuem aufgenommen wurde, musste sie notgedrungen ihr Augenmark auf das Gebiet der sozialen Fuersorge konzentrieren."
(p. 48)

The report is pretty long and it mentions that in unspecified towns other Jewish Communities (of the pre-war number of 55) resumed activities.

Ivo Goldstein writes in detail about the Jewish Community of Zagreb during the NDH in his book "Holokaust u Zagrebu":
Image

Dr. Esther Gitman in her book Kad hrabrost prevlada, Spašavanje i preživljavanje Židova u Nezavisnoj Državi Hrvatskoj 1941.-1945., KS, Zagreb, 2012 on the page 299 also brings a facsimile of a letter from April 14th 1943 sent on behalf of Community, signed by Hugo Ko(h)n and Miroslav Freiberger to Zagreb Kaptol (Capitol - ecclesiastic institution).

Best regards,
Eisvogel

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Re: Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

Postby Larry D. on 25 May 2012 01:09

Without taking a half a day to drag out and review old notes, microfilms and books currently in storage boxes where they have been for 15+ years, I seem to remember at least several references in the German Embassy Agram (Zagreb) microfilms, especially in the Polizeiattaché correspondence, that the Jewish communities in the NDH were able to ransom release of some of their members from Ustasha custody in the camp system so they could return home and/or be smuggled out to the Italian zone of occupation in Dalmatia. One of the Jewish communities (Varazdin?) even bought the temporary release of hundreds of its people from Jasenovac. This angered the Germans and was one of the reasons that they took over custody of the Jews in late 1942 or early 1943, rounded up as many as they could and transported them to the so-called Unternehmen Reinhardt camps in Poland. So, the Jewish communities in the NDH performed a valuable service to their compatriots for as long as they could. It also demonstrates the abject corruption of many higher authorities in the UNS who personally profited from the system they had set up to persecute the Jews.

Since I am writing this from memory, Dr. Eisvogel might want to review it to see if it's correct. Fleeting references to this can also be found in the Glaise von Horstenau - Hptm. Arthur Haefner correspondence.

L.

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Re: Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

Postby kiseli on 25 May 2012 06:53

Croatian nationalists, and the nationalistically inclined Croatian Clericalists who held most of the senior positions in the Ustasha propaganda apparatus and mass media, placed the Jews among the traditional enemies of the Croatian people. As a foreign element in the Croatian nation, with the nefarious aim of corrupting and destroying its national fiber, they had to be removed from the body politic. Other traditional enemies were Serbs and Freemasons; a more recent one, the Communists. For excerpts from Ustasha speeches and propaganda statements against Serbs and Jews, see Peršen, Ustaški logori, pp. 9-17, and Jelić-Butić, Ustaše, pp. 158-87. In May 1942, the Ustashas organized an anti-Jewish exposition in Zagreb that was later taken to other parts of the country.

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Re: Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

Postby kiseli on 25 May 2012 10:44

Cvitković wrote:Hi there,

I'm interested in obtaining any information on the relationship between the NDH and the Vatican City, both pre the breakup of Yugoslavia and during the time of NDH. Did the Vatican City recognize NDH, how (if he was at all) involved was Pope Pius XII with the Roman Catholic state? Any info would be great!
Also I watched a documentary some time ago now about "ratlines" with notorious Nazi's and other fascists escaping through the help of the Vatican? How organized were these ratlines and which Nazi and fascist members escaped? Any information about this too would be great. Thanks for you're time.


The Independent State of Croatia was located in an area of vital concern to the Vatican, where Roman Catholicism had coexisted or collided with both Eastern Orthodoxy and Islam for centuries. During the Second World War, a new enemy, international Communism, threatened the position of all churches and traditional ruling groups in eastern and southeast Europe, and Croatian territory was a central battleground in this struggle. In the newly established Croatian state, Catholics wielded all the political power that the forces of occupation allowed. Croatia had also become a formal quasi protectorate of Italy, the home of the Catholic Church. For all these reasons, the Vatican's interest in the political and religious developments in the area was intense.
During the war, neither the Vatican nor the Independent State of Croatia, each for its own reasons, gave out information about the precise nature of their relationship. In documents published after the war, Vatican authorities constantly stressed that the Vatican could not and did not recognize the Croatian state de jure because, according to established custom, it did not so recognize states created during war until peace treaties were concluded and the new states were accepted into the community of nations. But while formal appearances were preserved, Vatican diplomatic practice was flexible enough to allow representation of a special nature in states created during war but not yet recognized. So in August 1941, the Vatican accredited Giuseppe Ramiro Marcone, abbot of the Benedictine monastery of Montevergine, as apostolic legate to the Croatian episcopate. In the message of July 25, 1941, that Luigi Cardinal Maglione, papal secretary of state, sent to Archbishop Stepinac announcing the arrival of Abbot Marcone, he observed that "surely the abbot will have opportunities to make contact with Croatian government authorities and to listen to their requests." That Abbot Marcone took advantage of this possibility is seen from the diary of his secretary, the Reverend Giuseppe Masucci, which tells of the abbot's visits to Pavelić, the head of state, and to various Croatian ministries—Army, Education and Religion, and Interior—with the exception of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which he scrupulously avoided visiting. After February 1942, Abbot Marcone was present at practically all official functions of the Croatian government.( For Cardinal Maglione's message to Stepinac, see Holy See, Actes et documents du Saint Siege, 5:106. For Abbot Marcone's presence at Croatian government functions, see Masucci, Misija u Hrvatskoj, 1941-1946, pp. 32, 39-43, 77) At the same time, however, it should be noted that the Vatican maintained diplomatic relations with the Yugoslav government-in-exile throughout the war and recognized the unified Yugoslav government formed on March 7,1945.( Diplomatic relations between the Vatican and the Yugoslav government-in-exile during the war became a test case for the interpretation of Article 12, Paragraph 2 of the Lateran Treaty of 1929 between the Vatican and Italy. According to the Vatican, diplomats accredited to the Holy See could maintain their residence in Rome proper, that is, outside the Vatican. According to the Italians, once the war began, they could not. In fact, most diplomats accredited to the Vatican from countries at war with Italy moved into the Vatican. The Yugoslav minister to the Vatican, Niko Mirošević-Sorgo, was initially permitted to live in Rome,but when the Italian government accused him of espionage, he was forced to leave the country.
He did so at the end of July 1941, but remained accredited to the Vatican, performing his
duties from Lisbon. A Yugoslav diplomatic chancery operated in the Vatican with a diplomatic official who lived in the Vatican and a consultant for religious affairs who lived inRome. See Pavlowitch, "'II caso Mirošević,'" pp. 105-37. See also the memorandum of the papal Secretariat of State of February 12,1942, to the diplomatic missions to the Holy See on the issues raised by the Mirošević-Sorgo case, in Holy See, Actes et documents d u Saint Siege,5:417-27). The Independent State of Croatia, for its part, had an unofficial representative at the Vatican, stationed at the Croatian Legation in Rome, first Nikola Rušinović(Rušinović was born in the United States, but was taken by his mother to her native Dalmatia while still a child. His two most important posts during the war were as the unofficial representative of the Croatian government to the Vatican and as the Croatian delegate to the Italian 2nd Army, the army of occupation in about half of Croatian territory. After the war, he eventually returned to the United States and became a professor at a university in Kentucky.) and later Count Erwein Lobkowicz.
The best description of the true nature of the relationship between the Vatican and the Independent State of Croatia is found in a dispatch of the German News Agency DNB from Rome on March 14, 1942: "According to well-informed Vatican sources, there are no diplomatic relations between Croatia and the Vatican, but there exist confidential relations recognized and authorized by both parties." This dispatch was preceded by one day by a report to the same effect from the German ambassador to the Vatican, Diego von Bergen, to his ministry. According to von Bergen, the main reason for the establishment of these confidential relations was the existence "of a series of questions which urgently required mutual discussion and regulation. The most difficult problem was that of the Orthodox."( Germany, Federal Republic of, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Bonn, "Nachlass Kasche."Both quotations are from this collection of Envoy Siegfried Kasche's files, made available to me on microfilm by courtesy of the ministry.)
It is obvious from these sources that the Vatican recognized de facto the Independent State of Croatia. This was also the opinion that Archbishop Stepinac gave at his trial.( Sudjenje . . . S t e p i n c u , p. z 6 6 . Blažeković, " E l status internacional del Estado Independiente de Croacia," p. 270, also says that the Vatican had recognized de facto the Independent State of Croatia). From the contacts that Abbot Marcone maintained with Croatian authorities and the reports that he received directly from Croatian bishops and clergymen, as well as from the information that the Vatican received from the Yugoslav government-in-exile, the Vatican was undoubtedly well informed about both ecclesiastical and political events in the Independent State of Croatia during the war. At the same time, reports from the unofficial Croatian representatives at the Vatican, Rušinović and Lobkowicz, show that some officials in that body had grave misgivings about the Ustasha state and severely criticized it.( Tajni d o k u m e n t i , passim; see also Falconi, l l s i l e n z i o d i P i o X I I , pp. 453-504.) Yet according to the available documents, the Vatican never protested publicly to Croatian authorities against Ustasha persecution of the Serbs and the Serbian Orthodox Church. As will be seen below, the Vatican may also have been partly responsible for the fact that the Catholic Church hierarchy in Croatia itself never protested publicly against this persecution, which many Catholic priests abetted. The absence of an official Vatican representative with the Croatian government might be a formal excuse for this lack of protest, but it cannot serve as a moral excuse, and in fact indirectly implicates the Vatican in the persecution. The rationale for silence apparently lay in the fact that the Croatian government was engaged in a struggle against both the traditional and new enemies of the Catholic Church—Eastern Orthodoxy and Communism—which the Vatican felt it was politically inopportune to condemn.

from: "War and Revolution in Yugoslavia, 1941-1945,Occupation and Collaboration" by J.Tomasevich, pp.532-4

For detailed description of "Rat-line" consult "U.S. Intelligence and the Nazis"by Norman J. W. Goda, Richard Breitman, Robert Wolfe, Timothy Naftali

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Re: Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

Postby michael mills on 10 Jun 2012 09:30

Jewish Community was recognized religious community in NDH?


Why not?

There was an officially recognised Jewish Community in Germany until the very end of the war, the "Reichsvereinigung der deutschen Juden", headed by Dr Leo Baeck.

Of course, the size of the officially recognised Jewish community in Germany was greatly reduced over time due to ongoing deportations, but it continued to exist and carry out its official functions. Most of its officials, inclusding Baeck, avoided deportation and survived until the end of the war.

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Re: Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

Postby Treve on 26 Jun 2012 14:01

Was Leo Baeck not deported?

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Re: Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

Postby michael mills on 27 Jun 2012 00:03

Held in Theresienstadt.

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Re: Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

Postby Treve on 27 Jun 2012 05:41

So he was deported.

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Re: Relationship between the NDH & the Vatican

Postby michael mills on 27 Jun 2012 21:00

No.

Internment of Jews in Theresienstadt was not "deportation" from the point of view of official German Government policy.

"Deportation" involved being sent to the Occupied Eastern Territories, beyond the borders of the Great-German Reich. It is clear from German documents that internment in Theresienstadt was an alternative to "deportation", reserved for privileged Jews.

There were deportations from Theresienstadt, of Jews who lost their privileged status. However, Baeck and other leaders of the officially-recognised German Jewish community retained their privileged status and were not deported, remaining at Theresienstadt.

Theresienstadt was conceived as a sort of "colony" for Reich Jews who for one reason or another were not to be deported, eg they were over age, or married to Germans, or privileged in other ways.

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