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The Hungarian Army of WW2...

Discussions on all aspects of the smaller Axis nations in Europe.
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Postby daveh on 03 May 2003 14:01

2nd Hungarian army strength returns
.................hungarians......other axis troops...........horses
13/8/42..........213340.............920............................64067
13/9/42..........203839............9723...........................64616
13/10/42........209479............5436...........................67797
13/11/42........206197............2967...........................65819
13/12/42........223327............3179...........................62704
13/1/43..........228011............3287...........................56452

2nd Hungarian army losses 12/1/43 to 26/2/43
...........................KIA.............WIA..............MIA.............POW......TOTAL
Officers................364..............838...............990.............52.............2244
men....................6196............14943...........57455.........939............79533
labour forces......2158..............716.............18843........1591............23308

TOTAL................8718.............16497..........77288.........2582..........105085

2nd Hungarian army equipment losses 12/1/43 to 26/2/43

rifles 110000
pistols 32000
smg 3500
mg 2900
medium mortars 400
AT guns 460
Field guns 250
field howitzers 130
motorbikes 1000
personnel carriers 1600
load carriers 4000
AFV 190
horses 56000
carts and wagons 16000
field kitchens 530
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Postby Marcus Wendel on 03 May 2003 15:33

daveh,

Thanks for the info.

/Marcus
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Postby daveh on 04 May 2003 11:45

A site which has some more details including weapon totals for the Hungarian 2nd army summer 1942

http://members.tripod.com/~Sturmvogel/Hung2Army.html
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Postby Csaba Becze on 04 May 2003 19:48

daveh:

Your source was Mr. Niehorster's book? If it was, unfortunately, it contains mistakes. I'll try to get a copy of this book and send the corrections to the autor.
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Postby daveh on 05 May 2003 00:18

Hi Csaba Becze, apart from the air attacks how reliable is Niehorster? It is one of the main english sources available so many people depend on it, including to a large extent myself.

I have seen but dont own The Royal Hungarian Armed Forces 1919 - 1945 by Andris J. Kursietis ARK Publications Co. This has OOB and lists of commanders but did not seem as comprehensive as Niehorster. Do you know Kustrietis 's work? and if so did you find it accurate? Sadly I did not have the Niehorster when I read the Kursietis so cannot really compare them effectively.

Given the site that Niehorster has on OOB I judged his book the better buy, was I right to do so? The Niehorster does give a narrative of the Hungarian forces in WW2 which I have not seen elsewhere.
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Postby Csaba Becze on 05 May 2003 12:49

daveh:

As I wrote it before, I have not this book, and I never read it. It was too expensive for me, and the interlibrary system didn't send me this book.

You know, I am very glad, that foreigners interested in the Hungarian military history, and a German historian wrote a book about Hungary, but nowadays generally all of the reliable sources was written in Hungarian language. If you don't speak the language, you can't use the best sources. Another thing: a lot of Hungarian books also contains huge mistakes - you must know very well the details and if you know this things well, you can select the sources.

Some other wrong dates, event in your list during summer, 1942 in Kortoiak, Scsucsje and Uriw bridgehead-battles:

You wrote this:
Uryv bridgehead : The first attempt to clear this started on 27/7/42 using the 1st field armoured division,. This attack cleared much of the bridgehead and destroyed 21 T34's without any losses of their own tanks. Unfortunately very low ammo stocks meant the attack had to stop and on 7/8/42 soviet counter attacks started. These retook the lost territory.

The second attempt to clear the Uryv bridgehead was undertaken by III Corps from 18/8/42 but was halted by tough soviet resistance.

And the corrcet dates, events: the first attack was on 18 July, 1942, not on 27 July, 1942. The Hungarians kocked out 21 tanks, but just a few was T-34, mainly T-26 and M3 tanks were the victims. Some M3 Stuart were captured also (and was used later as towing by the Hungarians)
The second attack was on 10 August, 1942, not on 18 August, 1942.

You wrote this about Korotoiak:
Karotyak bridgehead: The soviets had pushed back the 10th light division and IV Corps tried to restore the situation from 7/8/42. The 1st field armoured division and 12th light division cleared tyhe north part of Karotyak but made nno further progress. The soviet attack against III corps led to the removal of 1st field armoured division , this gap being attacked by soviet units which were only initially held back by artillery battallions using some of their men as infantry. 10/8/42 German reinforcements held the soviet attack.

From 12/8/42 the hungarians attacked again with 1st field armoured division, 10 and 12 light divisions and a German division,. By 3/9/42 this bridgehead had been destroyed.


And the reality: the fight was very hard here during the all August after the Soviet attack(it was on 6 August, not on 7). The main Hungarian attacks were here: on 7 August, and on 15 August.
The bridgehead was destroyed between 1 and 3 September, but just by the Germans (336 ID, one StuG Abt, and other units), etc, etc, etc.

Can you see, that it contains a lot of mistakes? And this is just a small part of the book, I think.
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Hugarian Royal Army at WWII

Postby zsepi on 16 Jun 2003 10:22

Hello Folks
I found this website could be interested those are familiar with Royal Hungarian Army
http://home.tvnet.hu/~pemo/mujzer/
Best Regards
Zsepi
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hungarian army of ww2

Postby christopher nelson on 15 Jul 2005 14:24

Need help with the proper colors for the uniforms of the Royal Hungarian army uniform and the soldiers equipment. thanks
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