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Hitler wanted his followers to continue exterminating Jews

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Hitler wanted his followers to continue exterminating Jews

Postby Von Schadewald on 18 Feb 2009 18:36

[Split from "1945: Axis deals some telling parting shots"]

Shame to tell, but the only lasting "success" Hitler had in WW2 of those things that he had set out to do, was in destroying 80% of Jewry on the Continent. Hitler's last recorded testament was for his followers to continue exterminating Jews to the end. WI as a 'parting shot' that 80% had become 90 or 95% in the last months of the war. The nascent State of Israel would have been sorely deficient of manpower and non-viable without the trickle of survivors who arrived in time for the 1948 war.
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Re: 1945: Axis deals some telling parting shots

Postby Simon K on 18 Feb 2009 19:42

Yes Bullock makes a similar point in the closing pages of the classic Hitler - A Study In Tyranny
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Re: 1945: Axis deals some telling parting shots

Postby PeterOT on 19 Feb 2009 03:05

Von Schadewald wrote:Shame to tell, but the only lasting "success" Hitler had in WW2 of those things that he had set out to do, was in destroying 80% of Jewry on the Continent. Hitler's last recorded testament was for his followers to continue exterminating Jews to the end. WI as a 'parting shot' that 80% had become 90 or 95% in the last months of the war. The nascent State of Israel would have been sorely deficient of manpower and non-viable without the trickle of survivors who arrived in time for the 1948 war.


Did the Germans still have access to enough of the remaining jews in Europe to do this? I don't really know much about what jews where where by the start of 1945 & how many of them a determined 3rd Reich could have killed off.
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Re: 1945: Axis deals some telling parting shots

Postby Simon K on 19 Feb 2009 03:18

Dunno about "determined"
How about "genocidal" or "desperate" ??
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Re: 1945: Axis deals some telling parting shots

Postby PeterOT on 19 Feb 2009 03:27

Simon K wrote:Dunno about "determined"
How about "genocidal" or "desperate" ??


I guess I was thinking about the extent to which it would prioritize killing jews over defending its remaining territory. Like I said, I'd need to know who was where & what would be required to do the killing before judging the viability of killing up to 95% of Europe's jews.
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Re: 1945: Axis deals some telling parting shots

Postby Charles Lee Ray on 10 Jan 2013 16:06

Von Schadewald wrote:Hitler's last recorded testament was for his followers to continue exterminating Jews to the end.



His last testaments make no such claims.
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Re: 1945: Axis deals some telling parting shots

Postby BDV on 11 Jan 2013 22:44

Indeed, his aim with regard to the "Jewish question" (the elimination of European Jewry) had been achieved.
Pressé fortement sur ma droite, mon centre cède, impossible de me mouvoir, situation excellente, j'attaque. - Ferdinand F.

opportunity fleeting,
experience perilous,
and decision difficult.
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Re: 1945: Axis deals some telling parting shots

Postby Von Schadewald on 14 Jan 2013 19:22

Charles Lee Ray wrote:His last testaments make no such claims.


http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/ad ... tament.htm
"Above all I charge the leaders of the nation and those under them to scrupulous observance of the laws of race and to merciless opposition to the universal poisoner of all peoples, international Jewry.
Given in Berlin, this 29th day of April 1945. 4:00 A.M.
ADOLF HITLER"


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Re: Hitler wanted his followers to continue exterminating Je

Postby Charles Lee Ray on 15 Jan 2013 21:25

Von Schadewald wrote:
Charles Lee Ray wrote:His last testaments make no such claims.


http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/ad ... tament.htm
"Above all I charge the leaders of the nation and those under them to scrupulous observance of the laws of race and to merciless opposition to the universal poisoner of all peoples, international Jewry.
Given in Berlin, this 29th day of April 1945. 4:00 A.M.
ADOLF HITLER"





No where in that does it mention to exterminate Jews to the end.


Pogo
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Re: Hitler wanted his followers to continue exterminating Je

Postby wm on 15 Jan 2013 21:40

BDV wrote:Indeed, his aim with regard to the "Jewish question" (the elimination of European Jewry) had been achieved.

Not quite. Only on the territory of Poland the number of surviving Jews is estimated at 150-300 thousand, or even more.
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Re: Hitler wanted his followers to continue exterminating Je

Postby Von Schadewald on 22 Jan 2013 01:37

After 12 years of ceaseless indoctrination, of "Der Ewige Jude" and of "Jud Suss", the average German in 1945 took could only understand Hitler's last words "....und zum unbarmherzigen Widerstand gegen den Weltvergifter aller Völker, das internationale Judentum" one way.
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Re: Hitler wanted his followers to continue exterminating Je

Postby David Thompson on 22 Jan 2013 02:55

Charles Lee Ray -- You wrote:
Von Schadewald wrote:
Charles Lee Ray wrote:His last testaments make no such claims.


http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/ad ... tament.htm
"Above all I charge the leaders of the nation and those under them to scrupulous observance of the laws of race and to merciless opposition to the universal poisoner of all peoples, international Jewry.
Given in Berlin, this 29th day of April 1945. 4:00 A.M.
ADOLF HITLER"



No where in that does it mention to exterminate Jews to the end.

How should the reader construe Hitler's expression "merciless opposition to the universal poisoner of all peoples"? "Merciless" is pretty explicit, and "poisoners" were customarily executed.
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Re: Hitler wanted his followers to continue exterminating Je

Postby Hawkwind on 23 Jan 2013 06:04

David Thompson wrote:Charles Lee Ray -- You wrote:
Von Schadewald wrote:
Charles Lee Ray wrote:His last testaments make no such claims.


http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/ad ... tament.htm
"Above all I charge the leaders of the nation and those under them to scrupulous observance of the laws of race and to merciless opposition to the universal poisoner of all peoples, international Jewry.
Given in Berlin, this 29th day of April 1945. 4:00 A.M.
ADOLF HITLER"



No where in that does it mention to exterminate Jews to the end.

How should the reader construe Hitler's expression "merciless opposition to the universal poisoner of all peoples"? "Merciless" is pretty explicit, and "poisoners" were customarily executed.


Poisoners were customarily executed? Source?
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Re: Hitler wanted his followers to continue exterminating Je

Postby David Thompson on 23 Jan 2013 15:08

Hawkwind -- You asked:
Poisoners were customarily executed? Source?

For a quick reference, see:
Before 1949 the usual punishment for Mord (§ 211) in Germany was capital punishment, except in less severe cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(German_law)

For the German Criminal Code at the time see (German text):

Strafgesetzbuch für das Deutsche Reich vom 15. Mai 1871. Historisch-synoptische Edition. 1871-2009
http://delegibus.com/2010,1.pdf
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Re: Hitler wanted his followers to continue exterminating Je

Postby Steve Wilcox on 23 Jan 2013 15:28

Von Schadewald wrote:[Split from "1945: Axis deals some telling parting shots"]

Shame to tell, but the only lasting "success" Hitler had in WW2 of those things that he had set out to do, was in destroying 80% of Jewry on the Continent. Hitler's last recorded testament was for his followers to continue exterminating Jews to the end. WI as a 'parting shot' that 80% had become 90 or 95% in the last months of the war. The nascent State of Israel would have been sorely deficient of manpower and non-viable without the trickle of survivors who arrived in time for the 1948 war.

I thought it was about two-thirds of European Jews who died during the Holocaust, not eighty percent.
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005687
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