KM S-boat fleet ready at start of WWII?

[Takao]

That didn't work for the DB MB 501.

[thaddeus_c]

That didn't work for the DB MB 501.

not sure the point?

if you mean that every engine has to work and work interchangeable between S-boats and U-boats that does not seem likely or necessary.

[Takao]

That didn't work for the DB MB 501.

not sure the point?

if you mean that every engine has to work and work interchangeable between S-boats and U-boats that does not seem likely or necessary.

My point is that just because an engine works well in an S-boat, does not necessarily translate to success in a U-boat hull.

Further, given that Germany had already been using a Dutch "front company", Ingenieurskantoor voor Scheepsbouw, to design U-Boats, There is no need for another "front company" to design diesel engines for U-Boats, under the guise of being for S-Boats. Finally, I doubt that Marine Diesel engines were prohibited, so there is no need for a German "front company" to work on them.

[thaddeus_c]

meant to expand overall diesel engine production, give personnel experience repairing them, do so with class of ships not covered under naval treaties.

[EKB]

what if a larger S-boat fleet was ready at start of WWII? http://german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ship ... index.html

something around 3 - 4 times the OTL numbers? or 50 - 70

The S-boat fleet may have had issues with the primary weapons system. The U-boat fleet was plagued with many torpedo failures due to technical problems.

http://uboat.net/history/torpedo_crisis.htm

http://www.uboataces.com/articles-woode ... does.shtml

[fredleander]

The S-boat fleet may have had issues with the primary weapons system. The U-boat fleet was plagued with many torpedo failures due to technical problems.

http://uboat.net/history/torpedo_crisis.htm

http://www.uboataces.com/articles-woode ... does.shtml

They "may have had". But did they? The answer is in the history. Strangely enough, they didn't.

Riddle: Why didn't they?

Fred

[thaddeus_c]

The S-boat fleet may have had issues with the primary weapons system. The U-boat fleet was plagued with many torpedo failures due to technical problems.

http://uboat.net/history/torpedo_crisis.htm

http://www.uboataces.com/articles-woode ... does.shtml

They "may have had". But did they? The answer is in the history. Strangely enough, they didn't.

Riddle: Why didn't they?

Fred

O.K. Fred, why not?

have never seen mention of S-boats having torpedo issues and so quite frankly did not even consider that problem, were they just employed after the "torpedo crisis?"

[Takao]

Hint

[fredleander]

O.K. Fred, why not?

have never seen mention of S-boats having torpedo issues and so quite frankly did not even consider that problem, were they just employed after the "torpedo crisis?"

I haven't, either, but Takao has put it quite well. S-boat torpedoes were not exposed to the same (change of) pressure which the U-boat torpedoes were, which, due to leaks, influenced on their depth-keeping apparatus. I'm also not sure if the S-boat guys used the magnetic fuzes, but primarily the impact ones.

That said, S-boat torpedoes could be exposed to other environmental factors, like snow and temperature variations. Particularly their spare torpedoes which were stored on the deck aft of the launching tubes. OTH, this rarely lasted more than a day or two between inspection periods.

Interesting enough, the US submarine torpedoes had much the same problem - leaks.

Fred

[thaddeus_c]

if anything it argues in favor of earlier and larger S-boat fleet, as they could be deployed without the political and treaty issues of U-boats.

again not that specific issues dealing with torpedoes undergoing change of pressure would be discovered but the KM would have more experience, i.e. "this worked at xx-meters from the S-boat xx-number of times."

[EKB]

The S-boat fleet may have had issues with the primary weapons system. The U-boat fleet was plagued with many torpedo failures due to technical problems.

http://uboat.net/history/torpedo_crisis.htm

http://www.uboataces.com/articles-woode ... does.shtml

They "may have had". But did they? The answer is in the history. Strangely enough, they didn't.

Are you sure?

The S-boat captains made more than a few falsely claimed torpedo hits, and falsely claimed sinkings of Allied shipping—with reports made at close range on nights in which Allied ships sustained no damage. This would suggest the German sailors either had active imaginations, or they saw hits that turned out to be duds.

As well, there were many missed shots admitted by the S-boat skippers. It's hard to believe all that was due to poor technique, given that the U-boat flotillas used the same type of torpedo. Perhaps some observers on deck were more focused than others when watching the trail of bubbles, though if the fish tracked straight and true but didn't score then obviously something went wrong.

[EKB]

if anything it argues in favor of earlier and larger S-boat fleet, as they could be deployed without the political and treaty issues of U-boats.

again not that specific issues dealing with torpedoes undergoing change of pressure would be discovered but the KM would have more experience, i.e. "this worked at xx-meters from the S-boat xx-number of times."

The S-boats on hand in September 1939 were considered to be a failure by February 1940. At that time there was no enthusiasm for increasing production.

There is no evidence that German shipyards had the ability to quickly and significantly increase production during your proposed timeline. Many skills could not be transferred from workers at a U-boat yard to a yacht works that crafted high performance wooden boats.

[thaddeus_c]

how big of a failure was it considered, they built a couple hundred more during wartime conditions?

in fact Lurssen is still building navy ships.

AND they were somehow able to ramp up and build over a hundred ships a year, between the S-boats and R-boats.

[EKB]

how big of a failure was it considered, they built a couple hundred more during wartime conditions?

German admirals had a long wait for the S-boat command to prove its worth. The first claimed sinking of an Allied warship did not take place until May 1940.

Oberleutnant zur See Hermann Opdenhoff of S-31 was given a Knight's Cross for supposedly sending a British destroyer to the bottom, with two hits. His target was HMS Kelly, which was hit by one torpedo but did not sink, though seriously damaged. The ship was towed back to the UK where she was restored for duty.

[Takao]

Was not the majority of the schnellbootes produced at one yard?