September 1943:successful "Tidal Wave" saves "Panther Wotan"
-
- Member
- Posts: 2065
- Joined: 17 Nov 2004, 00:17
- Location: Israel
September 1943:successful "Tidal Wave" saves "Panther Wotan"
In OTL, for the loss of 53 out of 162 B24s, 'Tidal Wave' caused
"no curtailment of overall product output, but a distinct cutback in Axis reserve petroleum capacity"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tidal_Wave
WI, for the loss of another 50 more bombers, the operation severely dents Nazi oil output - by 50%.
This being August 1943, with the Germans being pushed back after July's failure of Kursk, the lack of oil forces even Hitler to realise that a Panther-Wotan line so far east is untenable, and he orders a general retreat.
By September the Germans are behind the Dnepr.
Having saved so many forces and with shortened supply lines, they bleed the Soviets white who are unable to cross, and any that do do are quickly destroyed.
The Germans are still sitting ensconced on the Dnepr come D Day June 1944. Only a sooner fall of Leningard and a Soviet flanking from the north being able to threaten them.
"no curtailment of overall product output, but a distinct cutback in Axis reserve petroleum capacity"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tidal_Wave
WI, for the loss of another 50 more bombers, the operation severely dents Nazi oil output - by 50%.
This being August 1943, with the Germans being pushed back after July's failure of Kursk, the lack of oil forces even Hitler to realise that a Panther-Wotan line so far east is untenable, and he orders a general retreat.
By September the Germans are behind the Dnepr.
Having saved so many forces and with shortened supply lines, they bleed the Soviets white who are unable to cross, and any that do do are quickly destroyed.
The Germans are still sitting ensconced on the Dnepr come D Day June 1944. Only a sooner fall of Leningard and a Soviet flanking from the north being able to threaten them.
Re: September 1943:successful "Tidal Wave" saves "Panther Wo
And how would that happen exactly?WI, for the loss of another 50 more bombers, the operation severely dents Nazi oil output - by 50%.
How would the Axis manage to bleed the Soviets when they have scarcely any fuel to transport their troops and supplies, not to mention their tank divisions as fire brigades?Having saved so many forces and with shortened supply lines, they bleed the Soviets white who are unable to cross, and any that do do are quickly destroyed.
-
- Member
- Posts: 2065
- Joined: 17 Nov 2004, 00:17
- Location: Israel
Re: September 1943:successful "Tidal Wave" saves "Panther Wo
Baltasar wrote:The Germans are not out of fuel: just reduced. Sufficiently reduced that they are compelled to drastically shorten their supply lines immediately in August 1943.WI, for the loss of another 50 more bombers, the operation severely dents Nazi oil output - by 50%.
And how would that happen exactly?
The Americans succeed in planting quite a few more 500lb bombs on those Ploesti refineries that in OTL went untouched.
How would the Axis manage to bleed the Soviets when they have scarcely any fuel to transport their troops and supplies, not to mention their tank divisions as fire brigades?Having saved so many forces and with shortened supply lines, they bleed the Soviets white who are unable to cross, and any that do do are quickly destroyed.
-
- Member
- Posts: 3533
- Joined: 24 Apr 2006, 22:21
- Location: Michigan U.S.A.
Re: September 1943:successful "Tidal Wave" saves "Panther Wo
Most Heer transport relied on railroads and horse drawn wagons just like WWI. Destroying a bit more vehicle fuel (not aviation fuel, which was synthetic) would make little difference.lack of oil forces even Hitler to realise that a Panther-Wotan line so far east is untenable, and he orders a general retreat.
-
- Member
- Posts: 10162
- Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 12:19
Re: September 1943:successful "Tidal Wave" saves "Panther Wo
Why would one think that the loss of another fifty bombers would achieve this result?
Did Romania even produce 50% of Axis oil at this stage?
What-ifs are only worth investigating if they are based on a plausible premise. I don't think this is one.
Did Romania even produce 50% of Axis oil at this stage?
What-ifs are only worth investigating if they are based on a plausible premise. I don't think this is one.
Re: September 1943:successful "Tidal Wave" saves "Panther Wo
Where is your POV on this von.S?
You've asked a rather sketchy WI without giving us any context of your own from which to debate.
Please comply with the WI Guidelines.
No further posts will allowed until we here from the thread author as to his POV. Any other posts posted before then will be removed, so please dont waste your time doing so.
Regards
Andy H
You've asked a rather sketchy WI without giving us any context of your own from which to debate.
Please comply with the WI Guidelines.
No further posts will allowed until we here from the thread author as to his POV. Any other posts posted before then will be removed, so please dont waste your time doing so.
Regards
Andy H