Britain and France don't declare war to Germany

[Marcelo Jenisch]

Hello,

I know the Germans expected the invasion of Poland to be a local conflict. But I'm wondering what would happen if was. I'm specially interested in know if there's evidence of what they expected to do after.

[Trackhead M2]

Hello,

I know the Germans expected the invasion of Poland to be a local conflict. But I'm wondering what would happen if was. I'm specially interested in know if there's evidence of what they expected to do after.

Dear J,
I wonder if the Ribbontropp Molotov pact would have survived Germany not being occupied with France and Britain. Without the Western Front, what would have stopped Hitler from thinking Barbarossa almost 2 years earlier or Stalin fearing the German Occupation troops in Poland and the Eastern European Axis Allies being on their doorstep?
It might have prevented the Luftwaffe assisting the British with urban renewal, but I think the Eastern Front would still happen.
Strike Swiflty,
TH-M2

[Uncle Fritz]

We know from surviving archival material that Britain and France declared war under the immense pressure from FDR administration* (he was openly blackmailing them with cutting off ANY american help in case of German attack in the west). So even if British Empire chooses survival instead of what could only be a ruining war, and so does France, still Germany will have to face a war in which USA will almost certainly assist Soviets in as open way as possible. Pearl Harbour would still enable Roosevelt to drag US into war and beleaguered Stalin would have to accept US soldiers on his turf.

Such war would have been certainly most interesting. Germany would have probably lost but British Empire would survive to our days.

*check Charles Tansill's "Back Door to War. The Roosevelt Foreign Policy 1933-1941" on these details. It is free on the web.

[pugsville]

Interesting what category the book is filed under.

Category: Novel,Fiction,Story Free eBooks



seems right.

[Uncle Fritz]

Well, the contents are not very fictious and author's thesis is based on archival research, which alone excludes premise that his book is a fiction, although we can disagree with his views.

It would be welcomed though, if you would provide us with something more than just smearing comments. A lengthy review perhaps?

[Gooner1]

Even if Britain and France did not declare war against Germany, the probability is that Germany would attempt to conquer the West in 1940 anyway - that year presented them the best chance they were likely to get with France coming out of their 'hollow years' and Britain building a continental sized army.

1941 may well have been to late for Germany's chances.

[Carl Schwamberger]

We know from surviving archival material that Britain and France declared war under the immense pressure from FDR administration* (he was openly blackmailing them with cutting off ANY american help in case of German attack in the west). ...

Thats interesting. What sort of "help" would Roosevelt have cut off in August 1939?

[Carl Schwamberger]

Even if Britain and France did not declare war against Germany, the probability is that Germany would attempt to conquer the West in 1940 anyway - that year presented them the best chance they were likely to get with France coming out of their 'hollow years' and Britain building a continental sized army.

Hitler was somewhat suprised when Britain and France declared war over the Polish war, and was even more suprised when both did not seek a imeadiate peace after Poland was conquored, and suprised again when Britain did not seek peace in 1940 after France asked for a armistice. Publiclly and privately he made statements through the 1930s that showed he did not understand Britains underlying foreign policy and that he did not expect war with Britain at all in the near future if at all. Neither did he expect a war with France until after the USSR was destroyed, although he seemed to think 'one final battle' inevitable in the future.

1941 may well have been to late for Germany's chances.

By then the French army & air force retraining program would have been complete, and the AF reequipped. Reynaud was planning on replacing Gamelin in May 1940, as a first step in getting rid of the older Generals & Marshals. That would have opened the way to updating doctrine and tactics. The British would have had twice as many fully trained corps, and the Belgians would have completed mobilization and a 'war time' training of their army. The Germans were at the top of their game in 1940 & without any further large scale combat experince there would not have been much improvement on their side.

[Andy H]

Hello,

I know the Germans expected the invasion of Poland to be a local conflict. But I'm wondering what would happen if was. I'm specially interested in know if there's evidence of what they expected to do after.

Jenisch, can you please adhere to the WI Guidelines and rules. If you don't then I'll lock the thread forthwith.

Regards

Andy H

[Tim Smith]

This scenario might have happened in late August 1939 if Germany had not occupied the rump of Czechoslovakia in March 1939, breaking the Munich Agreement and putting Britain on the warpath.

If Hitler hadn't occupied Czechoslovakia, there might have been no Anglo-Polish alliance. Without an alliance to honour, Britain is caught diplomatically unprepared for the invasion of Poland, and is confused and divided over how to respond to it. France has an alliance with Poland but won't want to honour it without guaranteed British help (France won't declare war on Germany unless Britain does so first.)

Downside - the Wehrmacht won't have the Czech tanks or arms factories, so the German invasion force is slightly weaker than historically - Panzer divisions have to use the old Panzer I instead and some infantry divsions have to guard the Czech border. Plus no help from the Slovaks.

[ljadw]

This is an old myth:the occupation of Czechia had nothing to do with the British and French DOW.The DOW also had nothing to do with the alliance to honour.Britain was not going to war because of an alliance to honour .
I will stop,because this is going totally of topic .

[Marcelo Jenisch]

Hello,

I know the Germans expected the invasion of Poland to be a local conflict. But I'm wondering what would happen if was. I'm specially interested in know if there's evidence of what they expected to do after.

Jenisch, can you please adhere to the WI Guidelines and rules. If you don't then I'll lock the thread forthwith.

Regards

Andy H

Andy, I would like to know if there's evidence of what the Germans planned to do after in case France and Britain didn't declared war like they expected. If yes, this is the guideline for the discussion and therefore within the rules. If not, then sorry and you can close this thread.

[ljadw]

Well, the contents are not very fictious and author's thesis is based on archival research, which alone excludes premise that his book is a fiction, although we can disagree with his views.

It would be welcomed though, if you would provide us with something more than just smearing comments. A lengthy review perhaps?

Going of topic again (sorry moderator),but,I should counsel caution,a lot of caution about this story,for the following
1)We all know the reputation of Tansill (he is persona grata at Stormfront)
2)it is an old story (I read it longtime ago):after the war,J.Forrestal wrote in his diary that J.Kennedy told him that Chamberlain told him (=J.K.) that Roosevelt was threaten him (=N.C.) with economic reprisals,if he did not declare war on Germany .The questions are :who was the envoy of F.D.R.,when did he threat N.C. and,what were these reprisals?
There also is the question about the reliability of J.F. and J.K.
3) There also is the fact that Stormfront and associates are using this story (it is no more than a story) to "prove" that F.D.R. and the Jews were the culprits for the war,while Adolf was innocent .

[Uncle Fritz]

Well I have never heard of any stormfront and we all know Adolf is not innocent. In my opinion we should dismiss or appraise a monograph based on its content value - not becouse obscure Adolf admirers like it (or not).

In my opinion western world would be better off if Hitler and soviets bleed each other to death. A contrary happened - murderous bolsheviks rose to be superpower thanks to FDR sovietophilia (we all know how warm his advisors were to Kremlin in 1930s) and West bleeded to death. My country paid the bill tripled...

[ljadw]

Well,Tansill was obssed by conspiracy theories (that FDR knew of the attack on PH),thus,his reliability is very low .
And,NO:the socalled sovietophilia of FDR did not cause the SU to become a superpower (the culprit was Adolf),and,NO,Poland was NOT the victim of FDR.
But,again,it is totally of topic .
IMHO,it is also useless to discuss with some one believing in the myth of the betrayal of Poland by the west .