Der Untergang (movie) Goebells plan

[Jumin121]

In the movie Der Untergang, Goebells mentions a plan of convincing the Americans to join them in the end of April 1945 if they could hold out in Berlin a little longer so that the western allies would realise that only the Germans can hold back the asian hordes.
so here is the what if, what if Hitler convinces the western allies, sometime during the battle of Berlin, to join the Nazis and fight off the Soviets, I personally think it was quite possible for this to happen because the Americans and Soviets had some tension at the time, I think that if fighting broke out on april 25 when East and West met at Torgau then maybe the West might help the remnants of the Reich and ultimately help Hitler and many other senior Nazis live on. Thoughts?

[wm]

The invasion of the asian hordes was in the Allies' plan. Then the "hordes" were going to attack Manchuria and help defeat Japan. In the end both the USSR and the Allies would exceed their war aims - by cooperation not by fighting among themselves.
There was nothing to be gained by fighting, but a lot by continued cooperation.

And the escalation of tension is an essential tools in a diplomat's toolbox - it means nothing by itself, only a desire to gain something - nothing more.

The Nazis were failure as diplomats, and April 1945 was another proof of this - their faulty ideology prevented them from seeing the world as it was.

[Tim Smith]

I think that if fighting broke out on april 25 when East and West met at Torgau then maybe the West might help the remnants of the Reich and ultimately help Hitler and many other senior Nazis live on. Thoughts?

No - the outcome of your scenario would be a 3-way war - the Allies and Soviets fighting each other as well as the remaining Nazis, not instead of the Nazis.

By late April 1945 the Nazis were too weak and too unpopular to be of any use as an ally.

If they were fighting each other, both Allies and Soviets would want German soldiers to volunteer to fight for them - but only after surrendering and being 'de-nazified' first. Think 'Britisches Freikorps' but in reverse - e.g. 'United Nations Free German Battalion' or 'People's Red Army German Regiment'. So after a month or two you might see a few German soldiers in American uniform, and a few German soldiers in Soviet uniform, for propaganda purposes more than anything else, but all the German soldiers in German uniform would be either POWs behind barbed wire, or dead.

[Jumin121]

even Patton said that he thought they should have fought the Soviets instead, and the Nazis weren't that unpopular that this scenario would be impossible, i think that one of the allies would have given the remnants of the Reich shelter to fight the other side, also I HIGHLY doubt any German in 1945 would join the Soviets

[LWD]

"even Patton" is a bit misleading. Patton was very far from the mainstream among the US populace or even the US miitary in regards to his views on this matter.

[Jumin121]

"even Patton" is a bit misleading. Patton was very far from the mainstream among the US populace or even the US miitary in regards to his views on this matter.

sorry for being "misleading" I had no intentions to be

[Tim Smith]

even Patton said that he thought they should have fought the Soviets instead, and the Nazis weren't that unpopular that this scenario would be impossible, i think that one of the allies would have given the remnants of the Reich shelter to fight the other side, also I HIGHLY doubt any German in 1945 would join the Soviets

By late April 1945 both Allies and Soviets knew about the Nazi death camps for Jews. That made Nazis not just enemies, but criminals and mass murderers. No deal which allowed the Nazi regime to survive is possible after that.

As for Germans joining the Soviets, you should read this.

National_Committee_for_a_Free_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_C ... ee_Germany

[Marcus]

An off-topic political post by Jumin121 was removed.

/Marcus

[Jumin121]

The national committee you talk about wished to "liberate" Germany from their nazi leadership not join the soviets, they where not communists but would do anything to free their fatherland. Also the allies knew about the death camps long before 1945, but did nothing a deal with the Nazis was not impossible after that