Lack of will could be the last problem in the list... Lack of men, of weapons, of oil, of supplies... and an excess of enemies in front, try to defeat all this just with sheer will.Jumin121 wrote:i still firmly believe there is ALWAYS a way if there is a will, and i guess the will just wasn't there anymore in april 1945,
Battle of Berlin
-
Ironmachine
- Member
- Posts: 5822
- Joined: 07 Jul 2005, 11:50
- Location: Spain
Re: Battle of Berlin
Re: Battle of Berlin
ok you did just totally shatter my point, but the weapons where there, lack of ammo would be a better one, lack of men was very true, lack of oil and supplies also true, but i still believe germany could have done better in 1945 than they did historically, much better, for instance they could have abandoned italy and norway and redeployed the troops to defend Germany, and germany's production in 1945 was still higher than that of every year except 1944, they could have succeeded somewhat in prolonging the conflict or a negotiated peace
- Andrew
Re: Battle of Berlin
Prolonging the war would only have cost more lives and done more damage. By 1945 most realistic German military leaders knew that the war was lost and didn't want to blindly throw their battle worn troops into pointless battles. Hitler was a sick and delusional man.
It's true that Germany's productivity was up in 1944 but then a lot of this extra productivity was not thrown into increasing the staying power of the military but rather hastening the demise of the Jews and other "enemies" of the Germans in the various concentration and labour camps throughout the occupied territories.
If the war had started a few years later then it may have been a different story with Germany leading the way in terms of technology such as the rockets, but as it was, after the failure of the Ardennes offensive at the start of 1945 any other moves would have ultimately been futile. IMO, the war was lost after Stalingrad.
Cheers,
Adam.
It's true that Germany's productivity was up in 1944 but then a lot of this extra productivity was not thrown into increasing the staying power of the military but rather hastening the demise of the Jews and other "enemies" of the Germans in the various concentration and labour camps throughout the occupied territories.
If the war had started a few years later then it may have been a different story with Germany leading the way in terms of technology such as the rockets, but as it was, after the failure of the Ardennes offensive at the start of 1945 any other moves would have ultimately been futile. IMO, the war was lost after Stalingrad.
Cheers,
Adam.
-
Carl Schwamberger
- Host - Allied sections
- Posts: 10063
- Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 21:31
- Location: USA
Re: Battle of Berlin
& a large part of the production increase was useless when the attacks on the transportation system stranded material in useless locations.wenty wrote:...
It's true that Germany's productivity was up in 1944 ....
Re: Battle of Berlin
but they could have held out in the industrial areas ( the Ruhr, major cities, and around Prague) which they somewhat did historically, and held off for quite a long time right?
- Andrew
Re: Battle of Berlin
Carl:
Yes, that's true about the transportation system, and as I said in my previous post as well, what vital resources Germany still did have left in 1944 were being pumped into exterminating the Jews and so called enemies of the state at concentration and labour camps as opposed to abandoning the ideological processes and throwing their remaining man and machine power into the war effort itself. If that had been done, i've got no doubt that the war would have been prolonged, but by 1944 it was almost certainly too late to change the outcome of the war completely - certainly after D-Day.
Jumin:
There were pockets of German resistance well into May 1945, even after Doenitz had signed the unconditional surrender. But they were nothing more than that - small pockets of the remaining fanatical Nazis who preferred to go down fighting. Indeed some took to ships and U-Boats and weren't captured until even later than that. But as far as land-based resistance goes, most of the material had been destroyed in the final months of the war, and what material there was left, Germany had no more fit, fresh and trained soldiers to use it - we all know how, by the final months of the war, old men and young boys and just about anybody who could hold a gun was being thrown into the chaotic defences.
Cheers,
Adam.
Yes, that's true about the transportation system, and as I said in my previous post as well, what vital resources Germany still did have left in 1944 were being pumped into exterminating the Jews and so called enemies of the state at concentration and labour camps as opposed to abandoning the ideological processes and throwing their remaining man and machine power into the war effort itself. If that had been done, i've got no doubt that the war would have been prolonged, but by 1944 it was almost certainly too late to change the outcome of the war completely - certainly after D-Day.
Jumin:
There were pockets of German resistance well into May 1945, even after Doenitz had signed the unconditional surrender. But they were nothing more than that - small pockets of the remaining fanatical Nazis who preferred to go down fighting. Indeed some took to ships and U-Boats and weren't captured until even later than that. But as far as land-based resistance goes, most of the material had been destroyed in the final months of the war, and what material there was left, Germany had no more fit, fresh and trained soldiers to use it - we all know how, by the final months of the war, old men and young boys and just about anybody who could hold a gun was being thrown into the chaotic defences.
Cheers,
Adam.
Re: Battle of Berlin
well that is true.. i dont know maybe i just envisioned a heroic struggle like the soviet union had 
- Andrew