No Western front

[David1819]

France and Britain are reluctant to fight for Poland as they decide they cannot afford another large scale conflict and decide not to declare war on Germany.

The war in Europe is now purely between Germany and the USSR

[ljadw]

Wrong assumption:

1) It is not because B+F decide not to fight ,that Germany would fight against Poland : one can argue that if Poland knew it would not have any help from B +F,that it would comply to Hitler's demands .

2)Why would a war between Germany and Poland automatically result (later) in a war between Germany and the SU ?

3)It is not because B +F would remain neutral in a war between Germany and Poland,that they would remain neutral in a war between Germany and the SU .

4) If B +F would remain neutral at the start of Barbarossa,this would not mean that there would be no Western front : there still would be a virtual Western front,which would tie big German forces and resources .In the OTL,more than 50 German divisions were tied by the war against Britain,I don't see that there would be less German divisions tied in the ATL .

5)In the OTL,Germany was fully busy with the war against B +F between september 1939 and june 1941.What would be the situation in the ATL? Would there be no German attack in may 1940? And why ?

Conclusion :the assumption that there could be a war between Germany and Poland,while B +F remained neutral (ATL) followed by a war between Germany and the SU(OTL) is the usual flaw of the IF threads :you can't say : let's replace A ,but keep B .In the OTL,B was caused (influenced ) by A.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Wrong assumption:

1) It is not because B+F decide not to fight ,that Germany would fight against Poland : one can argue that if Poland knew it would not have any help from B +F,that it would comply to Hitler's demands ....

What are the arguments that if Poland acceded to the German governments demand there would not be a German attack?

[stg 44]

Wrong assumption:

1) It is not because B+F decide not to fight ,that Germany would fight against Poland : one can argue that if Poland knew it would not have any help from B +F,that it would comply to Hitler's demands ....

What are the arguments that if Poland acceded to the German governments demand there would not be a German attack?

As part of the demands Poland would be a virtual puppet that would get dragged into the later conflict between Germany and the SU like all of Hitler's allies in Europe historically did. Germany would have gotten what it wanted, which is control over Poland's foreign policy and a much closer jump off point against Stalin, plus exclusive access to Polish markets and a Polish military ally.

[maltesefalcon]

One possibility I see.
War between France and Germany directly was almost inevitable.
If Germany attacked France in similar fashion to the 1940 campaign, then it would likely end up with the same result.

Except:
No BEF already in France. Therefore no British Dunkirk or defeat. Perhaps the UK could be persuaded to stay out of the war at this point?

[Baltasar]

One possibility I see.
War between France and Germany directly was almost inevitable.
If Germany attacked France in similar fashion to the 1940 campaign, then it would likely end up with the same result.

Except:
No BEF already in France. Therefore no British Dunkirk or defeat. Perhaps the UK could be persuaded to stay out of the war at this point?

Only if the British suddenly abandon their centuries long strategy of not allowing one power on the continent to become a threat to the British Isles. See Napoleon for example.

There's no chance that the British and French would not declare war on Nazi Germany when the latter attacked Poland. No chance whatsoever.

[LWD]

This what if is quite a way from what is called for in the FAQ at:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77436

[wenty]

Germany had been repeatedly alternatively warned and appeased about its transgressions in Europe from 1936 - 1939. The Allies, and certainly Neville Chamberlain, didn't want war.

It would be interesting if Germany hadn't begun its occupations for "lebensraum" until afterwards, what would have become of Operation Barbarossa.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Wrong assumption:

1) It is not because B+F decide not to fight ,that Germany would fight against Poland : one can argue that if Poland knew it would not have any help from B +F,that it would comply to Hitler's demands ....

What are the arguments that if Poland acceded to the German governments demand there would not be a German attack?

As part of the demands Poland would be a virtual puppet that would get dragged into the later conflict between Germany and the SU like all of Hitler's allies in Europe historically did. Germany would have gotten what it wanted, which is control over Poland's foreign policy and a much closer jump off point against Stalin, plus exclusive access to Polish markets and a Polish military ally.

That sounds a bit like the conditions imposed on the Cezch state post Munich. I supose we dont know how well it would have worked as the Cezch state was eliminated in march 1939. What evidence is there one way or the other this would not happen to Poland sometime in 1940? Anything Hitler said, wrote, or otherwise left that indicates a 'puppet' Poland would remain more than a few months or a year?