No Holocaust

[wenty]

To all of those who are denying that the use of transports and men for the purpose of genocide rather than military efforts made any difference, I suggest you read memoirs and listen to the stories of the people who were there and involved in the military. I'd look up the statistics and sources myself but I don't have the time.

Cheers,
Adam.

[wm]

In fact the Jews were working for the Third Reich even after the main phase of the Holocaust had been completed.
The Litzmannstadt Ghetto existed till the middle of 1944. The camps of Poniatowa, Trawniki, Lublin (where the Warsaw Jews were put to work after the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising) almost till the end of 1943. The KL Budzyń (the "nice" camp where the Jews were even allowed to celebrate Passover) and its Heinkel factory was working to the very end. There were many others.

There were lots of world-class doctors and surgeons in Germany, they really didn't need more.
Many of the (East) European medical professionals learnt their trade in Germany, German was literally the language of medicine at that time.

[BDV]

There were lots of world-class doctors and surgeons in Germany, they really didn't need more.

? What is that supposed to mean? Did german medicine ever recover from the Nazi trough? And how can this be applicable to countries like Romania, Hungary, where healthcare was at best borderline BEFORE the antisemitic follies? And then how much more acute the shortage during a campaign where the Axis had many weeks with bigger 1 week casualty counts as in the entire western campaing of 1940?

What are you even talking about?

Many of the (East) European medical professionals learnt their trade in Germany, German was literally the language of medicine at that time.

Je suis pas d'accord, évidemment

[wm]

Their healthcare was borderline, and their contribution to the war effort was borderline too. Germany wasn't defeated because the Hungarian/Romanian Armies lacked surgeons.
Germany was defeated because its primary allies against the supported by the Western Allies Soviet Russia were the powerless Romania and Hungary (with or without Jews in their ranks).

[BDV]

Their healthcare was borderline, and their contribution to the war effort was borderline too.

The auxiliary forces (Romanians, Hungarians, and the Italian and Slovak expeditionary corps) amounted about half of the Axis effort south of Prypiat.

Germany wasn't defeated because the Hungarian/Romanian Armies lacked surgeons.

And it was not defeated because Eastern Europe became a basketcase after removing the jewish merchant class, or due to overextension into Scandinavia, or the Balkan distractions, even less so due the invasion of Netherlands, or Malta, or the travails of the RLM, or of the Panzerwaffe, or the poor running of blockaded European economy, or the UBoat follies, or because non-rus ex-Bolshevik slaves and anti-Bolsheviks rus were never used to their full potential, or the poor planning, very poor preparation, and mediocre execution of Barbarossa. No snowflake in the nazi avalanche of stupid was responsible.

]Germany was defeated because its primary allies against the supported by the Western Allies Soviet Russia were the powerless Romania and Hungary (with or without Jews in their ranks).

But imagine, if you will, a situation where the Bolshevik Russia does not have to account for the meagre efforts of Romania, Hungary, and Finland.

[Cantankerous]

What if, After inspecting the mass killings in 1941 in the east Himmler and the SS high command fail to come up with a systematic industrial approach to exterminate the Jews. The mass shootings already demoralising his men the lack of a non personal execution method "such as gas chambers". The hole idea is abandoned and the Jews will simply be forced to migrate out of the Third Reich once the war is over.

WW2 ends in 1945 allied victory exactly how it did end. So what is Hitler's Legacy? How would Nuremburg go down? Would Himmler commit suicide once surrendered? would Israel exist? what else would be different?

Nothing would be any different. Realize the "mass shootings" in the East were a considerable part of the "Holocaust", as were the Nuremberg Laws and many other pre-1942 anti-Jewish actions of Nazi Germany.

Hitler and the Nazi's would have been just as demonized if less Jews had died. Hitler still commits suicide to avoid capture. The goal of Herzl and the Zionists still occurs, Israel.

As long as Winston Churchill condemned Hitler's conquest of Eastern Europe and bombardment of population centers in Poland and the USSR as sheer violations of the League of Nations charter and Hague Conventions, he was smart enough to take heed of the fact that the Holocaust wasn't just targeted at Jews and Gypsies but also Slavic peoples, especially non-Jewish Poles.

Even if the July 20 plot to assassinate Hitler had succeeded, the Holocaust would have continued if either Hermann Goering, Heinrich Himmler, or Rudolf Hess had taken charge.

[Terry Duncan]

Pointless necromancy yet again.