Amphibious Assault on Crete July 1941

[Carl Schwamberger]

When did Barbarossa stop for a breather? Maybe we hould take that into account in order to pick an alternate date.

April 1945.

Seriously, support of offensive operations eased at the end of 1941, tho the requirement to replace 30%+ losses in key personnel & material continued unabated.

Sure, the winter, and that woould likely be the first reasonable time when the Germans could entartain the idea of targeting Crete, but by then it would likely be too late.

I was thinking about the time when the Germans ran out their logistics and had to stop the land offensive to resupply, of course that didnt mean the LW ceased opearations, but that seemed to me the only way to give the scenario some plausibility, otherwise is May or December, period.

Ground operations continued unabated until late December, at least in terms of logistics. While formations dropped out & shrank as the weeks passed the effort to supply the attacking formations continued at maximum effort. After the offensives ceased there was still a desperate need for maximum logistics effort to sustain the defenders against the Red Armies winter attacks. Over all requirements at the front did not ease until spring, when the program to rebuild combat units and establish supply reserves kicked in.

[JAG13]

Of course, logistically there was no respite which is why they failed to send winter equipment forward, priority wise it simply fell behind food, ammo and oil, but they did have to stop for the infantry and supplies to catch up which is what I said.

[Urmel]

I cannot really think of any major break that would have allowed asset switching? There were clearly breaks in the various army groups, but other army groups then took up the slack.

[BDV]

I cannot really think of any major break that would have allowed asset switching? There were clearly breaks in the various army groups, but other army groups then took up the slack.

But each army group had its own LW flotte. That, and leaching a temporary taskgroup from the West forces (Luftflotte 3?), plus an Italian group, should be aplenty. Germans did it in '43, likely they could've done it in '41.

[Urmel]

The Germans did what in 1943? Beat a Brigade that was out on a limb with no air support. I don't think that has any relevance to what they would have had to do in 1941.

Also, even the Germans couldn't just switch a Luftflotte on a whim. When Luftflotte 2 moved to Sicily, it took it probably about 2 months to become fully activated again, and 3 from the time the initial plan was conceived (end October to end January). It's not an easy operation.

[BDV]

The Germans did what in 1943? Beat a Brigade that was out on a limb with no air support. I don't think that has any relevance to what they would have had to do in 1941.

Also, even the Germans couldn't just switch a Luftflotte on a whim. When Luftflotte 2 moved to Sicily, it took it probably about 2 months to become fully activated again, and 3 from the time the initial plan was conceived (end October to end January). It's not an easy operation.

How about the historical Merkur? And here there would be the advantage of ground LW units preparing the strips in advance.

[Urmel]

Yes, how about it? Please feel free to elaborate. Where did the planes come from, how long they had been in Greece, and all that.

[BDV]

It took 3 weeks (April 30 - May 20) not 3 months.

[Urmel]

Yes, and where were the planes before? How many extra planes are we talking about? Where did they come from? Feel free to elaborate.

[BDV]

How many extra planes are we talking about? Where did they come from? Feel free to elaborate.

For what goal would these be used? Historically, Fliegerkorps X supported the Dodecanese Campaign.

[Urmel]

How many extra planes are we talking about? Where did they come from? Feel free to elaborate.

For what goal would these be used? Historically, Fliegerkorps X supported the Dodecanese Campaign.

So the contention is now that there would be no need for additional air support beyond that which was already available in Greece in the period? Except for the 'leached' elements of Luftflotte 3, I guess? How much KG z.b.V. capacity remained in Greece after Barbarossa started?

[BDV]

Wasn't that the proposition? An amphibious rather than an airborne operation?

[JAG13]

Wasn't that the proposition? An amphibious rather than an airborne operation?

Not a single Ju-52 would be available as long as they can fly in Russia, they were quite busy trying to mitigate the Heer's supply issued not to mention the LW's.

December? January?