What if pre-war the German military decided to adopt the 75mm cannon they developed in 1934-35 for the Pz IV in 1938?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/87318007@N07/10645642583/
Originally designed for a halftrack to give recon units a high powered AT/AP weapon, what if the Pz IV adopted it instead of the L24? What effect does this have on the war with the Pz IV starting off with a high powered main gun? I don't think it changes the outcome of any major battles early on, but in terms of design and Barbarossa, what would it mean? It didn't perform as well as the L43 or L48 cannons (IIRC about 20-30% weaker), but it had much better performance than the L24 and 50mm L42 guns of the Pz III. IIRC it would be powerful enough to take on the KV-1 as well, but only from the side. How would it alter the loss patterns if it were universal for Pz IVs by 1939? How would it affect the upgrade to the L43 or 48? AFAIK it would be plenty good to take on anything the Wallies or Soviets fielded, save for the KV series, so by 1941 it would make a pretty significant difference in killing T-34s in Russia. In one instance AG-North was held up for an entire day during Barbarossa, because a KV-1 was parked on a bridge and could not be knocked out; with a side shot the 75mm L40.8 could take out the KV-1, which would have resolved the problem much sooner and increased their advance pace, even if by one day.
Thoughts?
Germany adopts L40.8 7.5cm cannon?
Re: Germany adopts L40.8 7.5cm cannon?
Advantage: Higher penetration against enemy heavy tanks e.g. Matilda II, KV-1
Disadvantage: Loss of indirect fire capability due to higher velocity shell?
The Panzer IV with 75mm L/24 gun was often used as self-propelled artillery in an indirect fire mode, especially against enemy AT gun positions. The Pz IV would take cover behind a hill, ridge or building, the commander would get out and act as a spotter, and the Pz IV would fire shots at long range with high gun elevation from behind cover. The commander would help get the shots ranged in, and the enemy AT position would be eliminated without getting any chance to shoot back.
This indirect fire capability was the biggest advantage of the early L/24 Pz IV, and some crews actually regretted the switch to the L/43 gun later in the war, at least until enough dedicated self-propelled artillery vehicles became available to support the panzers with indirect fire.
Disadvantage: Loss of indirect fire capability due to higher velocity shell?
The Panzer IV with 75mm L/24 gun was often used as self-propelled artillery in an indirect fire mode, especially against enemy AT gun positions. The Pz IV would take cover behind a hill, ridge or building, the commander would get out and act as a spotter, and the Pz IV would fire shots at long range with high gun elevation from behind cover. The commander would help get the shots ranged in, and the enemy AT position would be eliminated without getting any chance to shoot back.
This indirect fire capability was the biggest advantage of the early L/24 Pz IV, and some crews actually regretted the switch to the L/43 gun later in the war, at least until enough dedicated self-propelled artillery vehicles became available to support the panzers with indirect fire.
Re: Germany adopts L40.8 7.5cm cannon?
Sounds like a decent trade off. Given all the trouble that the Germans had against Allied and later Soviet tanks having a high velocity cannon for a couple hundred heavy tanks would be highly useful in France and later in Russia.
Re: Germany adopts L40.8 7.5cm cannon?
Personally I would produce the Panzer Ausf. A to Ausf. C with the 75 mm L/24, and switch to the 75mm L/40.8 with the Ausf. D, which entered production in September 1939. The Ausf. E would also have the 75mm L/40.8, but I would switch to the 75mm L/43 with the Ausf F in April 1941 if possible.
Re: Germany adopts L40.8 7.5cm cannon?
That seems fair, but wasn't the L48 easier to make? Why not just jump to the longer 75 then?Tim Smith wrote:Personally I would produce the Panzer Ausf. A to Ausf. C with the 75 mm L/24, and switch to the 75mm L/40.8 with the Ausf. D, which entered production in September 1939. The Ausf. E would also have the 75mm L/40.8, but I would switch to the 75mm L/43 with the Ausf F in April 1941 if possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_KwK_40
What effect would that have had in 1941 with the Pz IV rocking the L48 straight away? Would it limit the pressure to rush the Tiger and Panther into service with the more competitive 75mm in service in numbers from the very beginning, so that there wasn't even a ramp up period in 1942? Does the Pz III even remain a major model after 1941 and upgrade to the 50mm L60? Could it shift perhaps to a slightly longer 75 than the L24 (I remember reading about a L34 75mm somewhere that wasn't adopted in 1942/43 due to the effectiveness of the Pz IV with the L48).
Re: Germany adopts L40.8 7.5cm cannon?
I was just being somewhat historical. The L/43 was the first gun selected for the Panzer IV before a better muzzle brake allowed the L/48 to be installed.
I would think possibly the urgent need for the Panther and Tiger might be somewhat lessened, hopefully delaying their initial production until the worst of their teething troubles had been resolved.
The Panzer III would still be needed in full production until the end of 1942. The Panther was its replacement. Not sure if the Pz III could take a bigger 75mm gun, but I doubt it.
I would think possibly the urgent need for the Panther and Tiger might be somewhat lessened, hopefully delaying their initial production until the worst of their teething troubles had been resolved.
The Panzer III would still be needed in full production until the end of 1942. The Panther was its replacement. Not sure if the Pz III could take a bigger 75mm gun, but I doubt it.