German civil war of 1919

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Shadow of the East Prussia
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German civil war of 1919

#1

Post by Shadow of the East Prussia » 14 Apr 2015, 02:28

Almost a year ago, a fascinating alternate history topic emerged on a Polish history forum "historycy.org". The main theme was - what would happen, if Germany wouldn't surrender on 11.11.1918, but instead will decide to fight to the end?

After a long discussion about the reasonable POD, it was agreed, that the reason for Germany's "iron defense" was the alternate and more harsh version of the Wilson's 14 Points, with Germany blamed for the war, and suggested changes of the borders unnacteptable from Imperial perspective.

I know, that the translator can (and will) translate many parts of the text funny, but for any of you who wants to check the original thread, here's the link (the true discussion begins from page 6:) http://www.historycy.org/index.php?show ... 2062&st=60

The summary of most important changes in this ATL:
- In early 1919, Entente is crossing the borders of the German Empire;
- In that moment, Germany is at the brink of collapse and civil war between several factions emerges: "Blacks" are the German generals and politicians still wishing to fight to the last, "Pinks" are the socialists from SPD, wishing to negotiate, "Reds" are the revolted communist units, fighting with everyone else, and possibly "seccesionists" from the south of Germany, wishing to avoid the occupation by blaming the Prussian state for the war.
- Former Austro-Hungary is in very similar chaos, partially orchestraed by Germans, to "secure" the southern border.
- Ober-Ost is still present and strong, there is a thread that it will support bolsheviks... Or the bolsheviks would want to help the "Reds" in Germany.

Because the original topic in Polish seems to be in deep hiatus, I was wondering about the opinion from the other, "international" source. What do you think about such scenario? Is it plausible? Interesting? How about the other possible predictions or the outcomes?

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Baltasar
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Re: German civil war of 1919

#2

Post by Baltasar » 14 Apr 2015, 10:49

I wonder if the POD is really viable. Many soldiers in the German armed forces chose to surrender when their situation became too much to bear. They had been suffering from lack of everything by then and decided that they'd rather life in captivity than die what was left of their trenches. Their decisions had little to do with any surrender terms made announced by one of the many hostile nations they were fighting.


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BDV
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Re: German civil war of 1919

#3

Post by BDV » 14 Apr 2015, 14:12

Problem is that the southern flank was crumbling, and the KuK was actively collapsing in Fall 1918, and by Armistice it had ceased to be as a meaningful entity.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

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