German M1 Garand

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alltoes
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German M1 Garand

#1

Post by alltoes » 25 Apr 2015, 07:01

Many countries either copied, purchased, or obtained production rights for many various weapons. Prior to WW1, Germany virtually copied the Maxim machine gun.
The M1 Garand was developed in the 1920's and 1930's. What if Germany copied the design or made a similar semi-automatic rifle in early 1940? What effect could this have in North Africa and Barbarossa? Of course, a lot more ammunition would be required.

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: German M1 Garand

#2

Post by T. A. Gardner » 25 Apr 2015, 09:29

For all intents, they did.

Image

The Gewer 41 pretty much fits the bill. Inventing it a few years earlier doesn't really change anything. The problem for the Wehrmacht will remain the same: The per unit cost is higher and the production time is longer making it cost ineffective given that the machinegun is the squad weapon that matters. The riflemen are there primarily to support it so their having bolt action rifles is acceptable.


Carl Schwamberger
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Re: German M1 Garand

#3

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 25 Apr 2015, 12:33

No accident the Germans were often using the term "Grenadier" for their infantry formations in that era. The Idea of the rifleman prosecuting the assault with well aimed fire seems to have lost fashion. MG supporting assault teams using grenade seems to be the more common vision of infantry tactics then.

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Re: German M1 Garand

#4

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 26 Apr 2015, 11:57

Its more likely the French or Red armies would adopt a self load rifle. Both had a useable deign in limited production & any remaining technical solutions needed were not out of reach. I'm unsure if Japan or Britain had anything ready.

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Don71
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Re: German M1 Garand

#5

Post by Don71 » 26 Apr 2015, 13:05

Hello,

it was more the Gewehr 43 (450000-500000 produced), what was realy in service. The Gewehr 41 (130000 produced) was never realy in service.
Also shortly behind the introduction of the Gewehr 43 was the introduction of the STG 44 (425000 produced).
So the germans had around 1000000 automatic infantry rifles introduced before the war ended.

alltoes
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Re: German M1 Garand

#6

Post by alltoes » 29 Apr 2015, 15:10

Hello,
I was wondering the impact for Germany if "German M1 Garand"....or Gewehr 43 was available in mass numbers prior to opening of Barbarrosa. I am sure there would be much more ammunition expended and therefore a need.
We all know where the term "assault rifle" came from....Sturmgewehr or STG44.
Cheers

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Re: German M1 Garand

#7

Post by Cult Icon » 30 Apr 2015, 00:19

little difference. The primary killing tool in Barbarossa's infantry divisions was their superior logistics, feeding in their mortar/infantry gun/artillery advantage. The machineguns are mentioned in soviet AAR, too. Beyond this, they had much superior mobility (several times more trucks and horses, organic).

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Re: German M1 Garand

#8

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 02 May 2015, 20:09

Siegfried Knappes description of the common 1941 pattern of battle by his division, the 84th ID makes it clear the artillery/mortar/MG combination was the mode of battle for the Germans. Once the enemy position had been breech or flanked they either retreated, surrendered, or hunkered down where they were hammered by artillery until they either fled or surrendered. The German rifle squads had little shooting to do. They waited until the supporting weapons sufficiently suppressed the enemy, then closed in to grenade range & either took prisoners or occupied abandoned ground. If small arms fire was required the light MG did that While the riflemen took cover, or used grenades.

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