WW2 alternate timelines

[BDV]

“Either I get the oil of Maikop and Grozny, or I must put an end to this war.” -Adolf Hitler

Sooo,

Did he?!??

[OpanaPointer]

“Either I get the oil of Maikop and Grozny, or I must put an end to this war.” -Adolf Hitler

Sooo,

Did he?!??

It ended before we found out.

[SpicyJuan]

“Either I get the oil of Maikop and Grozny, or I must put an end to this war.” -Adolf Hitler

Sooo,

Did he?!??

By 1944 Germany was suffering severe fuel shortages.

[sitalkes]

Allowing the Germans into Spain would cause the Spanish government to fall? I've never heard that one before. It's more likely that a Spanish nationalistic totalitarian government that has control of the media would be more popular as their first target would be the long sought-after return of Gibraltar - I suppose you are assuming that operation would be a failure and a close blockade of Spain would result in even more starving people? Totalitarian governments don't care about starving people, by the way, look at what the Soviets did to the Ukraine. If Spain had entered the war, the Spanish navy had a good number of some useful ships (even if the largest was a heavy cruiser) and the lack of Gibraltar would have made life in the Med rather difficult for the RN - even if it made life easier elsewhere as the British chew up the remnants of the Spanish empire. Perhaps that might not be so easy as the loss of Gibraltar implies the loss of some significant Royal navy ships and an easier Sealion (with extra destroyers). Plus there's the possibility of some French involvement as a deal with the Spanish has to involve the French.

[BDV]

Totalitarian governments don't care about starving people, by the way, look at what the Soviets did to the Ukraine.

Some nice false equivalence there.

Incidentally, Franco Spain were opposed by forces sponsored by the perpetrators of Holodomor, Kuban famine, and the slave-lives-for-gold Kolyma programme.

[BDV]

“Either I get the oil of Maikop and Grozny, or I must put an end to this war.” -Adolf Hitler

By 1944 Germany was suffering severe fuel shortages.

So, did he?

[SpicyJuan]

“Either I get the oil of Maikop and Grozny, or I must put an end to this war.” -Adolf Hitler

By 1944 Germany was suffering severe fuel shortages.

So, did he?

Well he did seem to want to help the other team.

[OpanaPointer]

Allowing the Germans into Spain would cause the Spanish government to fall? I've never heard that one before.

That's because I just made it up. It's "What If".

[Kingfish]

6. British DID land first (which is akin to an attack, unless semantics are at stake) however they evacuated their forces before an actual clash with Germans. They had a bunch of skirmishes (most notably von Falkenhorst - if I remember correcty - group of several hundred able to inflict significant losses and repel a British force of thousands), nothing major.

Where did this happen?
Are you referring to the Altmark incident?

[Alixanther]

6. British DID land first (which is akin to an attack, unless semantics are at stake) however they evacuated their forces before an actual clash with Germans. They had a bunch of skirmishes (most notably von Falkenhorst - if I remember correcty - group of several hundred able to inflict significant losses and repel a British force of thousands), nothing major.

Where did this happen?
Are you referring to the Altmark incident?

It's not Altmark. Von Falkenhorst is involved at least into the battle of Dombas if not the entire Andalsnes operation. There might have been a different commander in charge, however.

[Kingfish]

6. British DID land first (which is akin to an attack, unless semantics are at stake) however they evacuated their forces before an actual clash with Germans. They had a bunch of skirmishes (most notably von Falkenhorst - if I remember correcty - group of several hundred able to inflict significant losses and repel a British force of thousands), nothing major.

Where did this happen?
Are you referring to the Altmark incident?

It's not Altmark. Von Falkenhorst is involved at least into the battle of Dombas if not the entire Andalsnes operation. There might have been a different commander in charge, however.

I'm asking about your statement regarding the British landing first.
When and where did this landing occur?

[Dave-the-Rave66]

I think a lot of the action could have played out differently if hitler had prioritised the Mediterranean instead of Barbarossa to begin with- securing the oil fields of the Middle East and giving Rommel the supplies he needed to kick the British out of Egypt would have helped sever her ties with India and the rest of the empire. what's more, he would have been in a more suitable position to attack the ussr on two fronts, with the added time allowing the generals to plan more effectively- plus Germany would have had some time to build there strength, before a more devastating, later attack on the USSR

[SpicyJuan]

I think a lot of the action could have played out differently if hitler had prioritised the Mediterranean instead of Barbarossa to begin with- securing the oil fields of the Middle East and giving Rommel the supplies he needed to kick the British out of Egypt would have helped sever her ties with India and the rest of the empire. what's more, he would have been in a more suitable position to attack the ussr on two fronts, with the added time allowing the generals to plan more effectively- plus Germany would have had some time to build there strength, before a more devastating, later attack on the USSR

Someone has read some "How Hitler Could Have Won World War II" by Bevin Alexander, it seems

[Dave-the-Rave66]

yes!! that's the one!!

[JAG13]

I think a lot of the action could have played out differently if hitler had prioritised the Mediterranean instead of Barbarossa to begin with- securing the oil fields of the Middle East and giving Rommel the supplies he needed to kick the British out of Egypt would have helped sever her ties with India and the rest of the empire. what's more, he would have been in a more suitable position to attack the ussr on two fronts, with the added time allowing the generals to plan more effectively- plus Germany would have had some time to build there strength, before a more devastating, later attack on the USSR

And by doing so he could attack and negate the Caucasus oil to the USSR, pretty much ending the war if he can also secure Finnish and Japanese assistance to close their alternate supply routes, but...

1942 Soviet army is much stronger than the 1941 one, much better tanks, aircraft and fortifications, and any 1942 war implies Stalin would not be refusing to believe reality and allow the Germans to attack at will and with little opposition at first, a 1942 war likely has Stalin already on an aggressive stance, with both countries waiting for May to start operations.

It would be bloody as hell.

If Germany can take out Soviet oil they win, eventually, if not they lose since you would still have Pz IIIs and Pak 39s vs now KV 3s and T-34Ms and tactical genius can only take you so far...