A Pre-World War I German Return of Some or All of Alsace-Lorraine to France?

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Futurist
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A Pre-World War I German Return of Some or All of Alsace-Lorraine to France?

#1

Post by Futurist » 29 Dec 2015, 08:27

If Germany would have been willing to return some or all of Alsace-Lorraine to France in the years before the start of World War I (whether through a French purchase of Alsace-Lorraine or through a plebiscite with a pro-France result), then would France have been willing to break and end the Franco-Russian Alliance afterwards? (Also, for the record, Alsace-Lorraine would need to be permanently demilitarized in this scenario in order to prevent France from attacking Germany in order to try conquering other German territories such as the Saar(land).)

Any thoughts on this? After all, if I was the German Kaiser in the pre-World War I years, then I would have at least considered doing this so that I could have a free hand in the East (against Russia) in the event of a future war. :)

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Re: A Pre-World War I German Return of Some or All of Alsace-Lorraine to France?

#2

Post by Futurist » 30 Dec 2015, 23:21

Futurist wrote:Any thoughts on this? After all, if I was the German Kaiser in the pre-World War I years, then I would have at least considered doing this so that I could have a free hand in the East (against Russia) in the event of a future war. :)
Indeed, a one-front war is certainly much better for Germany than a two-front war is. :)


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Re: A Pre-World War I German Return of Some or All of Alsace-Lorraine to France?

#3

Post by SpicyJuan » 31 Dec 2015, 21:38

Futurist wrote:If Germany would have been willing to return some or all of Alsace-Lorraine to France in the years before the start of World War I (whether through a French purchase of Alsace-Lorraine or through a plebiscite with a pro-France result), then would France have been willing to break and end the Franco-Russian Alliance afterwards? (Also, for the record, Alsace-Lorraine would need to be permanently demilitarized in this scenario in order to prevent France from attacking Germany in order to try conquering other German territories such as the Saar(land).)

Any thoughts on this? After all, if I was the German Kaiser in the pre-World War I years, then I would have at least considered doing this so that I could have a free hand in the East (against Russia) in the event of a future war. :)
Except the parts Alsace-Lorraine Germany took in 1871 were German. Giving France AL was not only politically impossible (betraying your own citizens in a position of power), but would do nothing to deter France from seeking another war.

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Re: A Pre-World War I German Return of Some or All of Alsace-Lorraine to France?

#4

Post by Futurist » 01 Jan 2016, 01:32

SpicyJuan wrote:
Futurist wrote:If Germany would have been willing to return some or all of Alsace-Lorraine to France in the years before the start of World War I (whether through a French purchase of Alsace-Lorraine or through a plebiscite with a pro-France result), then would France have been willing to break and end the Franco-Russian Alliance afterwards? (Also, for the record, Alsace-Lorraine would need to be permanently demilitarized in this scenario in order to prevent France from attacking Germany in order to try conquering other German territories such as the Saar(land).)

Any thoughts on this? After all, if I was the German Kaiser in the pre-World War I years, then I would have at least considered doing this so that I could have a free hand in the East (against Russia) in the event of a future war. :)
Except the parts Alsace-Lorraine Germany took in 1871 were German. Giving France AL was not only politically impossible (betraying your own citizens in a position of power), but would do nothing to deter France from seeking another war.

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Didn't the loss of Alsace-Lorraine in 1871 significantly strain Franco-German relations afterwards, though?

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Re: A Pre-World War I German Return of Some or All of Alsace-Lorraine to France?

#5

Post by SpicyJuan » 01 Jan 2016, 23:45

Futurist wrote:
SpicyJuan wrote:
Futurist wrote:If Germany would have been willing to return some or all of Alsace-Lorraine to France in the years before the start of World War I (whether through a French purchase of Alsace-Lorraine or through a plebiscite with a pro-France result), then would France have been willing to break and end the Franco-Russian Alliance afterwards? (Also, for the record, Alsace-Lorraine would need to be permanently demilitarized in this scenario in order to prevent France from attacking Germany in order to try conquering other German territories such as the Saar(land).)

Any thoughts on this? After all, if I was the German Kaiser in the pre-World War I years, then I would have at least considered doing this so that I could have a free hand in the East (against Russia) in the event of a future war. :)
Except the parts Alsace-Lorraine Germany took in 1871 were German. Giving France AL was not only politically impossible (betraying your own citizens in a position of power), but would do nothing to deter France from seeking another war.

Image
Didn't the loss of Alsace-Lorraine in 1871 significantly strain Franco-German relations afterwards, though?
No doubt about it. The French thought Alsace-Lorraine was theirs since they had held on to it for several hundred years, yet it was still German.

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Re: A Pre-World War I German Return of Some or All of Alsace-Lorraine to France?

#6

Post by Futurist » 15 Jan 2016, 06:47

SpicyJuan wrote:
Futurist wrote:
SpicyJuan wrote:
Futurist wrote:If Germany would have been willing to return some or all of Alsace-Lorraine to France in the years before the start of World War I (whether through a French purchase of Alsace-Lorraine or through a plebiscite with a pro-France result), then would France have been willing to break and end the Franco-Russian Alliance afterwards? (Also, for the record, Alsace-Lorraine would need to be permanently demilitarized in this scenario in order to prevent France from attacking Germany in order to try conquering other German territories such as the Saar(land).)

Any thoughts on this? After all, if I was the German Kaiser in the pre-World War I years, then I would have at least considered doing this so that I could have a free hand in the East (against Russia) in the event of a future war. :)
Except the parts Alsace-Lorraine Germany took in 1871 were German. Giving France AL was not only politically impossible (betraying your own citizens in a position of power), but would do nothing to deter France from seeking another war.

Image
Didn't the loss of Alsace-Lorraine in 1871 significantly strain Franco-German relations afterwards, though?
No doubt about it. The French thought Alsace-Lorraine was theirs since they had held on to it for several hundred years, yet it was still German.
If so, though, then wouldn't returning most or all of Alsace-Lorraine to France have significantly reduced the desire of the French people for a new war with Germany in the future?

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Re: A Pre-World War I German Return of Some or All of Alsace-Lorraine to France?

#7

Post by glenn239 » 19 Jan 2016, 19:07

Futurist wrote:If Germany would have been willing to return some or all of Alsace-Lorraine to France in the years before the start of World War I (whether through a French purchase of Alsace-Lorraine or through a plebiscite with a pro-France result), then would France have been willing to break and end the Franco-Russian Alliance afterwards?
No.

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Re: A Pre-World War I German Return of Some or All of Alsace-Lorraine to France?

#8

Post by Futurist » 30 Apr 2016, 20:24

glenn239 wrote:
Futurist wrote:If Germany would have been willing to return some or all of Alsace-Lorraine to France in the years before the start of World War I (whether through a French purchase of Alsace-Lorraine or through a plebiscite with a pro-France result), then would France have been willing to break and end the Franco-Russian Alliance afterwards?
No.
Why exactly, though?

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Re: A Pre-World War I German Return of Some or All of Alsace-Lorraine to France?

#9

Post by SpicyJuan » 30 Apr 2016, 22:25

Futurist wrote:
glenn239 wrote:
Futurist wrote:If Germany would have been willing to return some or all of Alsace-Lorraine to France in the years before the start of World War I (whether through a French purchase of Alsace-Lorraine or through a plebiscite with a pro-France result), then would France have been willing to break and end the Franco-Russian Alliance afterwards?
No.
Why exactly, though?
Because it's strategically much more important than AL. Also, handing back some land is only appeasement which gets you nowhere in the long-term.

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Re: A Pre-World War I German Return of Some or All of Alsace-Lorraine to France?

#10

Post by glenn239 » 02 May 2016, 18:17

Futurist wrote: Why exactly, though?
As per Spicy Juan above. France's antagonism towards Germany was as a rival Great Power. The lost provinces stung, but in the same manner that those who are hostile tend to hold grudges because they are useful, (think Hitler with Versailles - if he'd gotten his alliance with Britain and a free hand against Russia, he'd have changed his tune about Versailles, right? Same idea). If Germany had returned them, France and Russia would have seen t his as evidence of German weakness, wetting Franco-Russian confidence and compromising Germany's security.

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Re: A Pre-World War I German Return of Some or All of Alsace-Lorraine to France?

#11

Post by Futurist » 02 Jun 2016, 11:26

Good points, you guys! :)

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