If the Nazis would have *never* come to power in Germany, then how much larger would the German diaspora in Europe be?

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Futurist
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If the Nazis would have *never* come to power in Germany, then how much larger would the German diaspora in Europe be?

#1

Post by Futurist » 22 Apr 2016, 02:07

As in, be right now, in 2016.

Indeed, any thoughts on this? :)

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Re: If the Nazis would have *never* come to power in Germany, then how much larger would the German diaspora in Europe b

#2

Post by Futurist » 29 Apr 2016, 22:22

Also, for the record, by "German diaspora," I mean ethnic Germans who live outside of both Germany and Austria.


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Re: If the Nazis would have *never* come to power in Germany, then how much larger would the German diaspora in Europe b

#3

Post by Hoplophile » 16 Dec 2016, 12:25

I think that it is safe to say that, in a world in which the National Socialists never took power in Germany, the German diaspora in Europe would be much larger than it is in our world. One reason for this would be the absence of the Second World War in Europe, which, in our time line, resulted in the destruction (by various combinations of death, dispersal, expulsion, and emulsification) of many German-speaking communities in various parts of Eastern Europe, as well as a great reduction in the international prestige of German language and culture. Another would be the cultural effect of improvements in communications technology in the years between 1933 and the present, which, had it not been for the Second World War, would have done much to strengthen both the appeal and accessibility of German language and culture, thereby enabling German communities to maintain (and, indeed, strengthen) their ties to the larger German-speaking world.

To put things another way, without the Second World War, German would have continued to be the most common second language in Eastern Europe, the language of trade, science, and high culture for tens of millions of people. This, in turn, would have given members of German-speaking communities, to include those with spouses who were not of German descent, a strong incentive to teach that language to their children. At the same time, the increasing availability of entertainment and information in the German language would greatly facilitate this task, as well as bring previously isolated German-speaking communities into closer contact with each other as well as with people in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland.

In the twentieth century, ambitious members of the various German-speaking communities would still have made the effort to master the national languages of the countries in which they lived. However, by the dawn of the twenty-first century, the prospect of employment with international corporations might well have convinced many of these people that there was little benefit to learning the language of a place where all educated people also spoke German. In other words, they would be in much the same position as English-speaking people who live in the Netherlands of our time line.

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Re: If the Nazis would have *never* come to power in Germany, then how much larger would the German diaspora in Europe b

#4

Post by Futurist » 19 Dec 2016, 00:18

Great and extremely detailed answer! :) Indeed, all of this certainly sounds very plausible! :)

However, out of curiosity--would the ethnic Germans in the Soviet Union have still eventually immigrated to Germany (presumably after the Soviet Union would have reformed and/or collapsed)?

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Re: If the Nazis would have *never* come to power in Germany, then how much larger would the German diaspora in Europe b

#5

Post by uhu » 19 Dec 2016, 01:24

Quite simply there would be one European union stretching from the English Channel to the Pacific making for a very strong Soviet Union continuing their progress toward world domination. 2016 would see Soviet take overs in Cuba, Central america and Venezuela, and Panama.

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Re: If the Nazis would have *never* come to power in Germany, then how much larger would the German diaspora in Europe b

#6

Post by BDV » 19 Dec 2016, 03:23

uhu wrote:Quite simply there would be one European union stretching from the English Channel to the Pacific making for a very strong Soviet Union continuing their progress toward world domination. 2016 would see Soviet take overs in Cuba, Central america and Venezuela, and Panama.
Quite. IIRC the mighty Sovjet Union had some trouble defeating a country like Finland. And post-war Bolshevik Russia had some trouble exerting influence over any communist country not under their direct occupation, see China, Jugoslavia.

Truly it is dumbfounding that Hitler beat Djugashvilli in the race for the "most incompetent" title.

So, no.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

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