Guys, please read - Göring said

[Torretta13]

okay guys, so I am reading the Battle of Britain an EXCELLENT BOOK, and in it the author, James Holland (whom I know you guys have never heard of, but whatever) said that Göring said that IF HE HAD JUST HAD 4 DIVISIONS OF PARATROOPERS, he would have FOLLOWED THE FLEEING BEF back to England and invaded with those paratroopers, seizing key airfields where he could then land more troops for a full-scale invasion.

Holland said that the British were in COMPLETE DISARRAY, fleeing for their lives, no "home guard" invasion plans has really been established at that point, a TON OF equipment had been abandoned in Dunkirk, etc. etc. in OTHER WORDS (or "i.e.", if you WILL) the British were basically lying prostrate during the evacuation of Dunkirk, and the Germans COULD HAVE AT LEAST GAINED A FOOTHOLD ON BRITISH SOIL if they had attacked IMMEDIATELY WITH PARATROOPERS AND THE LUFTWAFFE while the BEF was still in the process of fleeing.

Thoughts?

[Knouterer]

Well, if the French had given up three weeks earlier, and the Germans had had four divisions of paratroopers instead of just the beat-up remnants of two regiments, and a navy that was ten times stronger (in surface units) than it actually was, and a spare Luftwaffe, then yes, maybe, who knows ...

What the Germans might have done with resources they did not have is just idle speculation.

And Göring said a lot of things. For example, that no enemy bombers would ever violate the Reich's airspace.

[Sheldrake]

okay guys, so I am reading the Battle of Britain an EXCELLENT BOOK, and in it the author, James Holland (whom I know you guys have never heard of, but whatever) said that Göring said that IF HE HAD JUST HAD 4 DIVISIONS OF PARATROOPERS, he would have FOLLOWED THE FLEEING BEF back to England and invaded with those paratroopers, seizing key airfields where he could then land more troops for a full-scale invasion.

Holland said that the British were in COMPLETE DISARRAY, fleeing for their lives, no "home guard" invasion plans has really been established at that point, a TON OF equipment had been abandoned in Dunkirk, etc. etc. in OTHER WORDS (or "i.e.", if you WILL) the British were basically lying prostrate during the evacuation of Dunkirk, and the Germans COULD HAVE AT LEAST GAINED A FOOTHOLD ON BRITISH SOIL if they had attacked IMMEDIATELY WITH PARATROOPERS AND THE LUFTWAFFE while the BEF was still in the process of fleeing.

Thoughts?

Jamers Holland is a successful author who knows how to write provokative arguments. He also wrote an article claiming that the MG34 and MG42 were inferior light machine guns to their britihs and US equivalents the Bren gun and BAR.

PS Is there any need to CAPTIALISE FOR EMPHASIS? It gives the impression that you are shouting.

[ljadw]

It is a lot of nonsense :

1) The Germans had no 4 airborne divisions and never had during the war

2) The British home forces were strong enough to prevent any laning by air or by sea


3 ) Even if Göring had 4 divisions, how could he move them to Britain : he had no transport aircraft enough .Even in 1944 did the Allies have not enough transport aircraft to move 4 airborbe divisions

4)The whole thing would have claimed a lot of time for preparations

5) Fighter Command would have shot all the Ju :it would have been a Turkey

[mezsat2]

There's no question a large contingent of airborne troops could have successfully landed on the island, but how would the Germans to keep this force supplied in the face of naval and air attack? How is the armor to be landed?

This wouldn't have been like jumping into Crete, where air and sea resistance was minimal. Even that limited adventure almost wiped out the Fallschirmjager.

The only possible way Sea Lion may have succeeded was if the Germans somehow seized the entire French navy and loaded it down for a one way suicide mission to British shores loaded down with the complete invasion force of the Wehrmacht on board.

[doogal]

Torreta13 wrote - COMPLETE DISARRAY, fleeing for their lives, no "home guard" invasion plans has really been established at that point, a TON OF equipment had been abandoned in Dunkirk, etc. etc. in OTHER WORDS (or "i.e.", if you WILL) the British were basically lying prostrate during the evacuation of Dunkirk, and the Germans COULD HAVE AT LEAST GAINED A FOOTHOLD ON BRITISH SOIL if they had attacked IMMEDIATELY WITH PARATROOPERS AND THE LUFTWAFFE while the BEF was still in the process of fleeing.

Would not the legions of JU 52`S and the Luftwaffe encounter the RAF and precipitate a huge air battle prior to any Airborne landing.
Whose to say the Fallschirmjager would arrive in enough strength with enough equipment.
Where would the JU 52`s come from for this.

[steverodgers801]

with what ships were the Germans suppose to invade with. They had very little to transport troops with and they had lost a lot of war ships in the Norwegian campaign and had maybe ten or so combat ships available. Finally the RAF was still very active and it would have taken time to set up bases close enough to England to support an invasion.

[ljadw]

There was no KM to protect the transport fleet

There was no transport fleet

There was no air domination

There was no possibility to capture a port

The British Army would eliminate the few men who could land


And most important : the weather would make a landing impossible .


If the landing was possible, the Germans would have tried it, they didn't,thus the landing was not possible .

[Flint]

In the program "How Hitler Lost the War" (available on YouTube) Sir Christopher Foxley-Norris (retired Air Chief Marshal RAF) was interviewed and asked if he thought Germany could have taken England in an immediate airborne invasion following the fall of France. While qualifying himself as a young and ignorant man at the time, he responded that he was fairly certain it would have worked.

[Rescue193]

1. The 7th Fliegerkorps (comprising two regiments an the 22 Airlanding Division) had been severely mauled in its attacks on The Hague and Eben Emael and its air transport had suffered significant losses (over 1200 prisoners taken by the Dutch were evacuated to England!).

2. Luftwaffe bases were too far from the coast of France to provide air cover so if an 'off-the-cuff' airborne assault had attempted in June 1940 its transport aircraft would have been shot down in droves, air resupply would have been negligible if not impossible.

3. OKW/OKH had absolutely no plans to invade England and even after Dunkirk, the French still had an army in the field and the British still had elements of the BEF in France (which were reinforced albeit only to be withdrawn sooner rather than later). So no immediate support or relief by ground forces could be expected for weeks and probably not even in months. planning for Sealion, such as it was, didn't start until August

4. The Kriegsmarine had zero capability to instigate and sustain any kind of maritime operation to provide resupply, support or even evacuation.

5. Despite the weakness of the British Army in the days and weeks after Dunkirk a puny, unsupported, airborne force lacking re-supply, reinforcement, heavy weapons and all else would have been annihilated in detail within days of its insertion.

Your proposition if fanciful.

[BDV]

If there is no Weserubung, no Slag om Nederland component to Fall Gelb, and if significant cooperation is done with the Regia Aeronautica in developing anti-shipping air options, liberal borrowing of Italian air assets (SM79s), the Luftwaffe procurement does not start developing dysfunction as historical (the Ju88 production rush), and if KM monies is not wasted on blue-water mega-ships but rather is spent on coastal warships, a puncher's chance for sure. 5/6 needed at a minimum.

[T. A. Gardner]

I wonder what the 1st and 2nd Canadian divisions in England at the time would have said about this?

[BDV]

They would have made it into a most entertaining affair. Without Weserubung there would have been a significant element of surprise, though.

Also, Germans had some good night navigation options+sacrificing the the KM above and below surface would have made for a close run.

Obviously a no go after Weserubung and the disaster in the polders.

[T. A. Gardner]

If there is no Weserubung, no Slag om Nederland component to Fall Gelb, and if significant cooperation is done with the Regia Aeronautica in developing anti-shipping air options, liberal borrowing of Italian air assets (SM79s), the Luftwaffe procurement does not start developing dysfunction as historical (the Ju88 production rush), and if KM monies is not wasted on blue-water mega-ships but rather is spent on coastal warships, a puncher's chance for sure. 5/6 needed at a minimum.

The reason the Netherlands was invaded was to bypass the Liege fortified line. That's why Eben Emael was taken out so specifically. That allowed the Wehrmacht to flank Liege and get into the Belgian plain quickly. Had this not been the case the Netherlands likely wouldn't have been invaded.

[BDV]

The reason the Netherlands was invaded was to bypass the Liege fortified line. That's why Eben Emael was taken out so specifically. That allowed the Wehrmacht to flank Liege and get into the Belgian plain quickly. Had this not been the case the Netherlands likely wouldn't have been invaded.

Historically the entire exercise was a great fiasco as Dutch defenses precluded vSponneck's force from reaching Flanders in any sort of timely manner. And AFAIK it was not until the Venlo Incident that Schicklgruber decided to attack Netherlands.

Historically, 200 planes here, 10 destroyers there, 300 transports elsewhere, 100,000+ troops to sundry sideshows, and soon when Stalin makes his move Nazi German bosses can only nod and smile; much less attempt about some sort of invasion of British Isles.