Bismarck what if

Von Schadewald · #106

Tirpitz and Bismarck vs the two factory fresh KGVs Anson and Howe would be interesting.

With their superior radar but endemic still faltering turret interlocks, the British could again be in trouble. Though neither had a "glass jaw" like Hood.

http://uboat.net/allies/warships/photos ... s_howe.jpg

NASAFAN101 · #107

hay i have a question for anyone who might know it? How big was Bismarck/Triptiz and Prinz Eugen, in know in Meters, Bis was 251 meters, and triptiz was 253 meters and Prinz Eugen was 212 meters. But how big were they in feet?
NIKKI

LWD · #108

The KGV class vessels were essentially on a par with the Bismark class. I would think that the British would try hard not to fight one on one. They'd want at least one other BB there along with cruisers and DDs. In an even fight 2 KGVs vs 2 Bismarks I would expect both sides to end up with similar damage (barring luck one way or the other). If both sides end up with heavily damaged ships this is not good for the Germans. In some ways one could say that POWs hits at Denmark straights got an operational kill on Bismark and started the chain of events that doomed her. While her hits on POW had a lesser impact.

NASAFAN101 · #109

she took the thinf two really big hits, one cut of the fuel in her two forward tanks and the other made i belive a 10inch hole in her bow.
Nikki

Von Schadewald · #110

The KGVs were originally meant to have had 12 rifles. If they had had them, plus no history turret interlock problems, would their twelve vs Bismarck's 8 have made them virtually certain victory in any one on one, even against a Yamato, or Heaven forefend, an Iowa?!

NASAFAN101 · #111

Yamato and her sister were in the later part of WW2, but i love all the ship, involoed in the war, ya a lot of you are going to think i'm carzy, but the just me.
Nikki

Hound Dog · #112

Von Schadewald wrote:The KGVs were originally meant to have had 12 rifles. If they had had them, plus no history turret interlock problems, would their twelve vs Bismarck's 8 have made them virtually certain victory in any one on one, even against a Yamato, or Heaven forefend, an Iowa?!

These comparisons are always tricky. KGV was handicapped (IMO) by a smaller gun. However, that's just part of the design. Bismarck had excellent guns, but (from what I've heard) inferior armor. The Germans couldn't develop their BB armor schemes in the interwar years as the Brits and Americans did, so they sort of copied the WWI Baden Class and went from there. She was tough, but not as tough as she would've been had she been built by the Brits or Americans.

Yamato had huge guns, but (again, from what I've heard) poor fire control (compared to USN and RN). Iowa had great guns and decent armor, and it's theorized she could've beaten Yamato one on one despite Yamato's larger guns, heavy armor, and sheer bulk. Iowa could hit more often and sooner, and chip away at Yamato's ability to fight before Yamato found the range. Once Yamato started scoring hits, I would NOT want to be on Iowa.

I think Iowa would've beaten KGV, as the 14" guns didn't have the range or penetration power of the 16"/50s of Iowa. I wouldn't want to be on ANY ship taking 16"/50 hits.

Of course, no Iowa class BB ever took any serious battle damage, so we'll never know if she had an 'achille's heal'. Lucky hits can do bad things; like Hood's magazine explosion or Bismarck's rudder or South Dakota losing power in her fight with Kirishima. Shoot - Mutsu (sister of IJN Nagato) spontaneously exploded for no apparent reason in Hiroshima harbor - they think it was bad powder that set off a magazine explosion (but that was a powder problem; not a ship design problem). Who knows what a lucky hit could do to Iowa?

NASAFAN101 · #113

Yamato and her sister were in the later part of WW2. so had did they get put in the talk? April 10 2007 on PBS is a new show about her.
Nikki

Tim Smith · #114

Stay on topic please.

NASAFAN101 · #115

Sorry! other then the one movie on Bismarck, are there anyother?
nikki

john1761 · #116

NASAFAN101, Just mult. the meters by 3.281 to get feet.

NASAFAN101 · #117

thanks.
nikki

Von Schadewald · #118

A good clip from the film "Sink the Bismarck"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxDvQfY9bms

For 1960 models in a water tank, it's pretty realistic. The exploding Hood is chilling.

And here a computerized clip of Bismarck in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CsZONf549g

NASAFAN101 · #119

i have them both. and their both fun to watch. Have any of you seen the 1960 movie on Bismarck and is it any good? i'm just asking i saw the tail end of it a few weeks back and i wented to by it on DVD!
Nikki

Von Schadewald · #120

Kenneth Moore is very good as the British intelligence officer. As is as Karel Stepanek as the menacing Nazi admiral.

Dana Wynter is a bit of female interest as a bit of seat-trim in a tight RN dark blue skirt.

imdb give it 7.4/10 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054310/

The scene in the Admiralty as news comes in that the Hood's blown up is memorable.

As is the near own-goal of sinking HMS Sheffield.

The turret scenes were filmed in the shortly to be scrapped Vanguard.

There are several inexplicable historical inaccuracies.

Including

- Swordfish being shot down (none were).

-Twin Bofors and pom poms on the Bismarck.

- A mythical "HMS Solent" destroyer being sunk by Bismarck on its last night.

As this film was made only 19 years after the event, why would they do this?