Guderian's rescue of the Kurland Pocket.

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Oberst_Emann
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Guderian's rescue of the Kurland Pocket.

#1

Post by Oberst_Emann » 08 Sep 2004, 06:49

Suppose Guderian is able to carry out his plan to drive straight through Latvia in January-February 1945 and rescue the troops from the Kurland Pocket? With about 500,000 experienced (they have been trapped since the latter part of Bagration) troops on their hands, what might their use have brough about tactically?

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Baltasar
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#2

Post by Baltasar » 08 Sep 2004, 16:48

Prolonged the war, nothing else.


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Kurt_Steiner
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#3

Post by Kurt_Steiner » 09 Sep 2004, 18:58

Prolonged the war, nothing else.
Yes, and the Russian would have the troops that were used in Kurland ready to fight elsewhere.

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Caesar
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#4

Post by Caesar » 09 Sep 2004, 19:22

what if Hitler had 500 000 men mor 2 defend Berlin?

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Kurt_Steiner
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#5

Post by Kurt_Steiner » 09 Sep 2004, 19:43

Then the Russians would have 900.000 more from Kurland, plus 17,000 guns or so, 3000 tanks and 3200 planes.
what if Hitler had 500 000 men mor 2 defend Berlin?
It wouldn't mean a thing, Caesar.

Let's suppose that Hitler had 500 000 more. Let's suppose the Russian forces doesn't change.

URSS
2,500,000 men - 42,000 guns - 6250 tanks - 7500 planes

Germany
1,500,000 men - 10,400 guns - 1500 tanks - 3200 planes

Perhaps the battle would have lasted longer. What? a week? a month? And then, the end. The defeat of the III Reich.
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Sam H.
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#6

Post by Sam H. » 10 Sep 2004, 20:35

I agree, by the time of Kurland the war was lost for Germany. Perhaps, with some wiser tactics, saving the troops in Kurland, etc., you could postpone the defeant. But the ultimate defeat of Germany could not be prevented through military means.

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Re: Guderian's rescue of the Kurland Pocket.

#7

Post by 20/20 vision » 24 Sep 2004, 10:10

Oberst_Emann wrote:Suppose Guderian is able to carry out his plan to drive straight through Latvia in January-February 1945 and rescue the troops from the Kurland Pocket? With about 500,000 experienced (they have been trapped since the latter part of Bagration) troops on their hands, what might their use have brough about tactically?
the no of germans in kurland was no more than 250,000 (217,000 surrendered on may 10)

guderian wanted to evacuate the kurland pocket not break in from the outside, he also wanted to evacuate norway as well which would have yeilded another 330,000 troops, plus 25 division from the west and 10 from italy. all this he wanted to meet the oncoming offensive in the east.

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Re: Guderian's rescue of the Kurland Pocket.

#8

Post by Oberst_Emann » 25 Sep 2004, 02:33

20/20 vision wrote:
Oberst_Emann wrote:Suppose Guderian is able to carry out his plan to drive straight through Latvia in January-February 1945 and rescue the troops from the Kurland Pocket? With about 500,000 experienced (they have been trapped since the latter part of Bagration) troops on their hands, what might their use have brough about tactically?
the no of germans in kurland was no more than 250,000 (217,000 surrendered on may 10)

guderian wanted to evacuate the kurland pocket not break in from the outside, he also wanted to evacuate norway as well which would have yeilded another 330,000 troops, plus 25 division from the west and 10 from italy. all this he wanted to meet the oncoming offensive in the east.
Ah, thank you for the correction. I suppose I could be confusing Heinz Guderian's strategy for his "Black January" plan.

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#9

Post by 20/20 vision » 25 Sep 2004, 22:28

Guderian was a Prussian and was desperate to to check the russian offensive on the prussian frontiers, he was quite prepared to concede defeat in the west at let the allies overrun all germany as long as the russians were kept out.

a pretty sound tactic considering the position the germans were in, and the knowledge of what the red army would do once on german soil.

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