Rudolf Hess didnt fly to England

[Christian W.]

Then what? What would have been his role during the following years?

[Andy H]

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When you post the thread, don’t just ask the question but give us the benefit of your viewpoint and information to back up your argument, as this helps to put the question into context.

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Andy H

[Tim Smith]

Hess was a weak-minded fool, that's why Hitler chose him for Deputy Fuhrer. Because he knew Hess could never be a threat to him politically.

The fact that Hess thought he could negotiate a truce with England in 1941 proves that the man was a complete idiot.

[chronos20th]

It appears that Hess was anything but a weak-minded fool, there were repeated peace approaches and secret negotiations in which the british were involved and hess was invited to britain.

Also there was a peace party in the British establishment that feared bolshevism and thought Britain should come to terms with Hitler.

As to what might happen, it depends on what view you take of the various books and documentaries of the Hess affaire you take.

These are;-

1) Hess is not allowed to make the flight as the Abwehr has worked out this is a psychological warfare scheme to convince Hitler he can rely on a coup against Churchill/ britain won't continue the war and so feel free to invade Russia.
Hitler agrees, barbarrossa is postponed for a year and Hitler attacks Malta, deals with the British Mediterranean fleet and invades the Middle east instead.

With no war in Russia, the Japanese Militarists do not prevail, Prince Koyone remains Prime Minister and Pearl Harbour does not take place.

With Britain not able to win the war, the peace party under the Duke of Kent prevails and Churchill is forced to resign. Hitler has got his peace in the west.

2) Hess is not allowed to make the flight as it is regarded as too dangerous, British intelligence may have learnt of the plan by intercepting messages with the British contacts.
Hoare, the ambassador to Spain is suspected of having reported his meetings to Churchill.

The Peace Party conspirators lead by the Duke of Kent cannot now be discredited. As Hitler prepares his attack on Russia they prevail on the grounds the british government should not stand in the way of an attack on bolshevism.
Hitler gets his peace in the west.

The Duke of Kent becomes Prince Regent until the return of his brother Edward VIII and Queen Wallis.

As Britain is now stronger in the Far East, Pearl Harbour does not take place, but insted the japanese make a deal with the Dutch for oil, which Rooseveldt is unable to prevent.


8) :roll:

[maltesefalcon]

I suppose it would be the same as actually occured since he never flew to England. He flew to Scotland.

[redcoat]

Very funny.

..... :roll:

I know that the correct name is Great Britain, but I like to use the name England.

Ok, that's your choice
But I would advise you not to do it in the presence of a Scottish person. it could turn out to be painfull

[Tim Smith]

I wouldnt call Hess a fool or idiot...

.... but that is your humble opinion.

After the RAF won the Battle of Britain, Churchill became a living legend in the eyes of the British people. He was more popular than George Washington during the American War of Independence! So any attempt by anybody else in the British establishment to oust him from his position would be doomed to fail.

And Churchill would have to be ousted, since he would never agree to peace no matter what the terms were. Like Hitler, Churchill was enjoying the war immensely, and planned to win it.

As a politician, Hess should have realised this.

[Ostkatze]

Two points- 1. Sorry to disagree, Tim Smith, but at the time, Churchill was far from being on solid ground either with the political leadership or the working class masses. He came close to being booted after the losses of Tobruk and Singapore. 2. Good points, chronos20th. Hess's supposed crazy solo mission is a cover that will not be blown in our lifetime. I read a fascinating book by a British Army surgeon who had the duty to examine Hess while in the rotating Spandau guard. He was excited to see his scars as Hess was lucky enough to come under the knife of a world-leading German doctor after being shot through the left lung in Rumania '16. No scar tissue at all front or back. In his enquiries he found that Hess left with extra fuel tank, flew north to Denmark and then west, presumably with knackebein or X-gerat to aid drop over a place (in dark) he had never been to. He was not able to penetrate the mystery and could not ascertain if the double was put in place prior to the flight or at what point later. After all the royal blood lines and Kennedys are gone some truth about these fun incidents may emerge. np.

[Reich Ruin]

Hess had a few screws loose that's for sure... c'mon the man put magnets against his body to find implants Jewish spies might have planted on him ! :roll: Anyway.... in all seriousness I doubt Hess' "little trip" would have had any real impact on the war. He would probably just stand by while others like Heydrich, Bormann, etc climbed over his rung on the political ladder to please Hitler and have more power in the Third Reich. He would probably make a few speeches and help rally the German peoples morale when their cities got bombed 24-7 in 1943 onwards much like Geobbels did. It would have been interesting to see how he reacts among Hitler's cadre when Operation Barbarossa and the Holocaust began as well as Albert Speer taking his place at his Fuhrer's side. He would probably have stayed with Adolf Hitler until the very end in the fuhrer-bunker under the Chancellery when the Third Reich was collapsing around them. Unless Hess did the unthinkable and betrayed Hitler during the conspiracy led by Colonel Stauffenberg.... I cannot see him going out with a bang but a whimper even if he did put a cap into his brain !

[Tim Smith]

Two points- 1. Sorry to disagree, Tim Smith, but at the time, Churchill was far from being on solid ground either with the political leadership or the working class masses. He came close to being booted after the losses of Tobruk and Singapore.

Ostkatze, the fall of Tobruk and Singapore took place in early 1942. Hess' flight to Scotland was in early May 1941. At which time Britain was winning the war against the Italians in East Africa, and holding Tobruk against the Afrika Korps in Libya.

Also, the sinking of the Bismarck was a huge boost for British morale, despite the loss of the Hood in the process.

[chronos20th]

Thank you, Ostkatze, and as you say the truth won'y come out in our lifetime.
Also Churchill was far from secure during this period.

The latest documentary "The Truth about Hess" claims he was on board the Duke of Kent's flying boat which was on its way to Sweden when it crashed. 16 bodies were founf in the wreck, then the tail gunner staggered out of the heather. There were 16 on board.
Also there were forty minutes unaccounted for in the flight time, just enough to land on a loch near where Hess was being kept in Sutherland in the north of Scotland and take him aboard.

Also the lghts on the Duke of hamilton's private airfield were switched on, then switched off suddenly just before the plane arrived.

[Jimmy]

Hess was a weak-minded fool, that's why Hitler chose him for Deputy Fuhrer. Because he knew Hess could never be a threat to him politically.

The fact that Hess thought he could negotiate a truce with England in 1941 proves that the man was a complete idiot.

Hess did NOT think that!!!! England is a part of the United Kingdom!! which includes Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland!! England is a small part of it............ the negotiations would have been between the Germans and the Government of the United Kingdom

[Tim Smith]

The fact that Hess thought he could negotiate a truce with England in 1941 proves that the man was a complete idiot.

Hess did NOT think that!!!! England is a part of the United Kingdom!! which includes Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland!! England is a small part of it............ the negotiations would have been between the Germans and the Government of the United Kingdom

You are being pedantic.

The Germans always commonly referred to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland as 'England' during the war. So the Germans would have said that Hess flew to 'England'.

Just as the British referred to the 'Greater German Reich' as 'Germany' even though the Third Reich included Austria and Bohemia incorporated into 'Greater Germany' during the war.

[Jimmy]

The fact that Hess thought he could negotiate a truce with England in 1941 proves that the man was a complete idiot.

Hess did NOT think that!!!! England is a part of the United Kingdom!! which includes Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland!! England is a small part of it............ the negotiations would have been between the Germans and the Government of the United Kingdom

You are being pedantic.

The Germans always commonly referred to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland as 'England' during the war. So the Germans would have said that Hess flew to 'England'.

Just as the British referred to the 'Greater German Reich' as 'Germany' even though the Third Reich included Austria and Bohemia incorporated into 'Greater Germany' during the war.

People just do not realise that Scotland is a separate country with it's own history, culture, traditions and played a part in WWII something which seems to be omitted it's always what England did and England's part. It's not just the war in everything Scotland never gets a mention - when England wins it's England's glory when Scotland wins it's Britain!!! it just pisses me right off. FACT:- RUDOLF HESS LANDED AT FLOORS FARM NEAR EAGLESHAM WHICH IS DEFINATELY IN SCOTLAND!!!

[Andy H]

I have deleted a number of posts which added nothing to the core subject of this thread.

Can we please concentrate on the thread subject and leave the semantic arguements alone

Regards

Andy H