U-boat refuelling

[kamehouse]

Dear all,
this is the first time I am posting in the Kriegsmarine but i need your help for this topic.
A friend of mine asked me this question:
Which non-Axis countries were used to refuel German U-Boats during WWII?

and then to give me a clue:
To help finding your answer:

The stops made by some U-boats to refuel were not done in actual harbours. In the same way that the captain in Das Boot buys torpedos off a yacht in Spain (I think), some U-boat captains had to improvise to get fuel when they were far from their harbours.

In that respect, I'm looking for names of non-Axis countries where U-boats refuelled.

Good luck! I'll give it until Monday morning and then I'll reveal the two I'm thinking of. I may be asking too difficult a question because my source is a U-boat captain who lives next-door to my uncle.

Can you help me ?
Thanks and regards,
K

[ChristopherPerrien]

As belligerants , unless their boat was gravely damaged and could not make a port of call in a friendly port, I don't think they could LEGALLY refuel ANYWHERE ,i.e. neutral countries. I believe this is how the laws of war state it, and is brought up often with the Graf Spee incident. The only places where U-boats could refuel was German ports and allies of Germany ( Italy, Vichy France, etc.) and occupied territories. This was why the Germans developed the Milchcow( German tanker submarines).

I assume your claim of candestine refueling might include Argentina and perhaps a former French or German colony, but that is just a guess.

Chris

[kamehouse]

Hi Christopher,I didn't think of Argentina as an option but I am open to all suggestions.
This is all the clues he left me and some other friends.Some of them think maybe north africa?
The Kriegsmarine isn't really my centre of interest so I am asking for any kind of ideas/lead.
Thanks for your reply by the way.
K

[FAlmeida]

Boats refuelling in Spain ports during II WW on interned German ships with a connivance of the Spanish Government
Vigo BESSEL
18.06.40 / U 43 / 101 t diesel; 2,1 t oil; water; food
26.06.40 / U 29 / 35 t diesel; 1 t oil; water; food
01.07.40 / U 52 / 56 t diesel; water; food
07./08.11.41 / U 77 / 102 t diesel; 3,3 t oil; food; water
27./28.11.41 / U 96 / 100 t diesel; 3,3 t oil; food; maps
11./12.12.41 / U 574 / 105 t diesel; 1,4 t oil; water; food; maps
12./13.12.41 / U 575 / 8,7 t diesel; supplement broken off, because boat was damaged and returned to Brest
14./15.12.41 / U 434 / 97 t diesel; 3 t oil; food; medicals
El Ferrol MAX ALBRECHT
27.06.40 / U 30 / 60 t diesel; 2 t oil; water; food
16./17.05.42 / U 68 / 14,2 t diesel; water
23.09.42 / U 66 / 10 t diesel; food
Cadiz THALIA
30./31.01.40 / U 25 / 33 t diesel; 2,2 t oil; water
21./22.07.41 / U 109 / 76 t diesel; 2,8 t oil; water; 3 torpedoes
31.07./01.08. and 01./02.08.41 / U 331 / 42 t diesel; water; 1 torpedo
14./15.10.41 / U 564 / 118 t diesel; 3 t oil; water; food
15./16.10.41 / U 204 / 105 t diesel; 3 t oil; food; 6 torpedoes; food, 2 wounded
26./27.11.41 / U 652 / 88 t diesel, 1,5 t oil; maps
Las Palmas CORRIENTES
03./04.03.41 / U 124 / 34 t diesel, 1 t oil, food
04./05.03.41 / U 105 / 66 t diesel; 2t oil; food
05./06.03.41 / U 106 / 44 t diesel; 0,6 t oil; food
24./25.06.41 / U 123 / 40 t diesel; 2 t oil; food
30.06/01.07.41 / U 69 / 62 t diesel; water
05./06.07.41 / U 103 / 47 t diesel; 2,3 t oil

Cheers, Fernando

[pzrwest]

The uboot in das boot didn't buy the torpeados and supplies they snuck into the harbor and tied up along side a german ship there and received them from the ship there. But they had to do it under cover of darkness and on the quiet or be interned like the german ship there

[kamehouse]

What bothers me is that he names the countries as non-axis and not neutral.Would that mean some allies(minor ones obviously) would have helped out some U-boats for supplies?
As I say German Navy isn't my field of interest so if i am saying something stupid do not hesitate to point it out.
Regards,
K

[kamehouse]

Here's another post from my friend which confirms an implication of an allied country.

"this is fun. You guys are going to love a couple of the answers I'll reveal.

But at the same time, I'm really hoping you'll guess them because I really want a more official confirmation that this actually happened. Although the word of a U-boat captain is certainly good enough for me.

Minor hint:

One of the countries I'm thinking of was Neutral

The other was with the Allies"

Grrrrr it's so frustrating i really don't know what to think.Any ideas?

[ohrdruf]

There were several fuel dumps for U-boats along the coast of Argentina, the main one being at Villa Gesell. The U-boats waited offshore and were serviced by a kind of lifeboat which brought out 250-litre barrels of diesel. The Brazilian Navy claims to have an air reconnaissance photo of the Argentine tanker "Santa Cruz" refuelling a U-boat off Brazil in 1942.

I think the Neutrality Law as it applied in the Second World War allowed belligerent submarines the same rights as surface vessels provided they were surfaced. Certainly U-boats used Spanish ports openly for 72-hours stays in the First World War (e.g. Arnauld de la Periere at Cartagena in 1917).

[kamehouse]

Well thank you very much.My friend should give us his answer anytime today.I'll post it and see with you all if you've heard of it?
Kind regards,
K

[kamehouse]

Well,as promised here's the answer from my friend.
The two countries I had in mind were:

Ireland and Canada

There are reports of German U-boats refueling in both these countries. Especially Ireland. In Canada, the refueling seems to have been limited to the St-Lawrence river in Quebec, and unconfirmed reports that some were refueled off the coast of Newfoundland.

To this another friend replied:
Ahh, the traiterous french...I know that there are sunken Uboats which have been found off the coast of Newfoundland, and actually spotted in the St Laurence as far as Quebec City during WW2...Interesting for sure...I'll search and see what I can find for the Canadian reports...

Can anybody confirm this?
Thanks for your replies,
K

[Takao]

I for one ask your friend for proof of his statement, because currently there is none in the u boat enthusiast community. U boats refuelling/purchasing supplies in Ireland, Canada, United States, Australia, etc. are all persistant myths. For that matter, why Ireland? It's to soon on the way out, and on the way back, you've shot all your torpedoes well before you would need to refuel, and later in the war british naval and air power make the risk of detection to great.

Possibly your friend heard about boats transferring fuel to one another which did occur. An inbound boat out of torpedoes or damaged and forced to return would pass fuel and/or torpedoes to the outbound boat. the process was time consuming and dangerous for both boats, and not likely to occur in heavily patrolled areas.

Still, the only proven nuetral country was Spain, and recent evidence, albiet circumstantial, suggesting Argentina.

[kamehouse]

As far as I know ,he got the information from a U-boat captain(that served in WW2 I suppose) he knows in Canada.
I could ask for more details if you need?
Regards,
K

[Carl Schwamberger]

If you can obtain solid evidence from your friend it would be of great interest to the Uboat 'historians' . At least the Name of the submarine officer, the submarines identification, and the dates of this incident. that would allow others to check and see if these items match German records. Beyond that any identification of the Canadians providing the supply would be usefull for confirmation.

There were many German immigrants living in North America in the 1940s, and a few sucessfully operated intel gathering operations for the nazi government. I'd suspect them before any prefidious French Quebecois

[Jon G.]

Boats refuelling in Spain ports during II WW on interned German ships with a connivance of the Spanish Government

None of the listed ships were de facto interned until later in the war. With info partly from Seekrieg and partly from Christoph Awender's website, I get the following info:

Vigo BESSEL...

This ship apparently was never interned. It was handed over to Britain in 1945, presumably at war's end.

...El Ferrol MAX ALBRECHT...

This ship was interned 'during the war', although, frustratingly, no date is given. She was handed over to Britain in 1945.

...Cadiz THALIA...

No internment date is given - perhaps this ship was never interned. She was handed over to the UK in August 1945; they passed her on to the USSR in 1946.

...Las Palmas CORRIENTES...

This ship was forcibly (?!) sold to Spain in September 1942 and given the new name Monte Moncago. Presumably that meant that the ship stopped refuelling and restocking U-Boats. The Germans also leased some ships from Spain (still Spanish flagged); perhaps this ship was part of a larger trade.

Thanks for the data!


Regarding the original quiz-style question I would consider a Canadian port the least likely place of all for a U-Boat to refuel and restock torpedoes etc. Considering that the Canadian navy (merchant & marine) undertook major part of the Battle of the Atlantic, and considering that Canada was in the war almost from the beginning I think it would have been just as likely for a U-Boat to berth at a British port.

Refuelling etc. by milk cow sub or tender ship off the Canadian coast would be another matter of course, but then that hardly qualifies as refuelling 'in Canada'.

[JonS]

I would consider a Canadian port the least likely place of all for a U-Boat to refuel and restock torpedoes etc.

The Canadian port in question might be Saint Pierre and Miquelon. If so, it says rather more about the poster than it does about the Canadians.