Voyage of U-977 and U-530.

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the submarine forces of the Kriegsmarine.
U-Boat 559
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Voyage of U-977 and U-530.

Postby U-Boat 559 » 19 Jan 2005 00:34

Hi Everybody.
I have some questions I wonder if you can asist me on.
At least six U-Boats including U977and U-530 sailed for South America. U-977 was supposed to be carrying gold and passengers. They arrived in Argentina four months later empty.
Can anyone tell me where were they for the four months?
Where was the cargo of gold.?
Who were the passengers and where did they go?
Thank you all.
Michael (U-Boat 559).

varjag
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Postby varjag » 19 Jan 2005 11:10

U 530 arrived at Mar del Plata 10th July 1945 much less than four months after sailing. The commander of U 977 wrote a book about their journey - which ended on August 17th - again at Mar del Plata. Seems '977' had little of gold or refugee nazi nasties on board - but a defunct diesel. According to his narrative, upon Germany's surrender - they took a vote (!) amongst the crew about returning to surrender - or pushing on for internment i South America....the 'internee-party' won and they plodded along on their one diesel and mostly submerged - hence the long time taken to get to River Plate. The idea backfired anyway - they become prisoners and were as I recall released into American custody. There has been several posts elsewhere on the forum about u-boats to South America - try the search engine!

U-Boat 559
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U-Boat 977.

Postby U-Boat 559 » 19 Jan 2005 11:32

Hi Varjag,
Thanks for your reply. I must try and get a copy of that book.
U-boat 559(Mike).

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FANGIO
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Postby FANGIO » 20 Jan 2005 21:01

Hi Michael!
Maybe you can find more info here:
viewtopic.php?t=46366
http://uboat.net/boats/u530.htm
http://uboat.net/boats/u977.htm
Hope it helps.
Best regards,

FANGIO

ohrdruf
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Postby ohrdruf » 16 Feb 2005 21:11

Michael

According to recently declassified Argentine archives as reported in the 1992 book "Ultramar Sur" by Salinas and De Napoli the following is now known about U-boats arriving in Argentina postwar:

(1) U-530 had been on a special operation to the US East coast after sailing from Germany 19 March 1945. This was three days after the bombing of Dresden and may have been linked to Hitler's orders to fire nerve gas shells at New York in retaliation. Hitler was talked out of this plan by Keitel and Jodl. The order is contained in the OKW War Diary (see also Gellermann: Der Krieg der nicht stattfand). Wehrmuth stated that for his unspecified mission he was under direct orders from Berlin.
The new set of interrogation documents show a conflict between the evidence of the crew members, who described how the 10-5-cm deck gun was jettisoned at sea, and the commander, Wehrmuth, who said that the gun had been unshipped ashore before sailing. This draws attention to the importance of the deck gun. It was Wehrmuth's personal decision to make for Argentina rather than surrender to the USA and for understandable reasons.

(2) There is a duplicate set of documents at the Argentine archive for U-977.
The Brazilian cruiser "Bahia" blew up at the Equator on 4 July 1945 as the result of crew error. At the time it was assumed that a German submarine was responsible, and Schaeffer, whose charts put him within fifty miles of the casualty, seemed a lokely candidate for the noose and the short drop when the US Navy framed him.
There are documentary indications that the Argentine intelligence service conspired with Schaeffer to put him a thousand miles to the north of the tragedy on the day in question, and thus came into existence his novel "U-977" with the world record 66 days by snorkel, all in agonizing detail. The Argentine Navy archive has a different version of the novel as no doubt does ODESSA.
The Kriegsmarine had a naval Etappendienst house at San Antonio Oeste, a small town inshore on the coast of Rio Negro. It seems likely that Schaeffer called in there for orders on or about 18 July 1945, for he was pursued by the torpedo boat "Mendoza" for forty miles and then depth charged there that night. These eight depth charges were the sum total of Argentina's anti-Nazi war effort: their pro-Nazi effort remains their more outstanding contribution. The depth charge attack damaged U-977, but fortunately our hero was saved "because it was getting dark", which resulted in all Argentine naval forces being recalled to base (probably after the Etappendienst got in touch). When Schaeffer put into Mar del Plata on 17 August 1945 U-977 had fresh battle damage up front plus a middling quantity of fuel, which was extraordinary if Schaeffer had come all the way from Norway without seeing man or beast as he claimed.

(3) Two cargo U-boats came down from Germany for which U-977 was the scout. The Etappendienst base could only be contacted by landline, since a wireless transmitter would have betrayed its existence and location, and so Schaeffer went on ahead there for orders. There were three submarines carrying important war material for abroad at the end of the war: U-234 for Japan, and U-235 and U-236 for Argentina. The latter two numbers were duplicates allocated for convenience. According to the Argentine naval archive at least one of these two boats unloaded at San Clemente del Tuyu on the night of 28th July 1945. The police knew all about it and had their work cut out not to get involved. The 1952 depositions to the CEANA enquiry have gone missing, or caught fire or something similar, which has saved everybody a lot of embarrassment. The second boat was damaged during a depth charge attack at the Equator on 18 July 1945 by the Brazilian destroyer "Babitonga" and may have sunk in the Bahia de San Matias while trying to manouevre ashore. There is some evidence that the present Argentine Government believes in the existence of this second boat which has certain material aboard and is so dangerous to approach that it may have been declared a "war grave" by the German Government even though all aboard are believed to have got away safely.


Nothing is known of any other U-boats landing material in Argentina postwar. Local writers, researchers, pilots of private planes occasionally report sunken U-boats and U-boat wreckage and artefacts along the coast, some photographed in lovely colour, but so far nothing of value has materialized and survived scrutiny.

U-Boat 559
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Voyage of997 and 530

Postby U-Boat 559 » 16 Feb 2005 22:13

Hi Ohrdruf.
Thanks for your reply to my query. I will spend tonight reading it thourghly. I have had a quick glance at it and found it very interesting.
I will get in touch again via this forum.
Thanks again.
michael

U-Boat 559
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Voyage of U-530 and U-977.

Postby U-Boat 559 » 17 Feb 2005 19:02

Hi Ohrduf.
Further to my message of last night. I have read your message and found it very interesting. I didn't know about U-530 and its misson I would like to know more about it. regarding U-977 if you go to http://english.pravda.ru/world/2003/02/27/43768.html this will giveyou details about the sinking of the cruiser "Bahia" this states that U-977 sank it with two Accoustic torpedoes. If you go to this web site it gives you details about the interview with the Captain and crew of U-977 http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-977INT.htm ( this is the American version of the proceedings)
U-235 is marked as sunk in the Kattegat wth 47 of the crew killed
U-236 is marked as scuttled in 1945 in Schlemunde.
These details are courtesy of http://uboat.net/
Of course like everything on the net are open to debate.
Hope these are of help to you and I await any more comments from anybody.
Cheers and thanx again.
Michael(U559)

ohrdruf
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Postby ohrdruf » 18 Feb 2005 13:34

U-559

You have to read what is said to you. A mere glance is not sufficient. I told you that U-235 and U-236 were duplicate numbers given to two boats of the group for convenience purposes.

If you read the official Brazilian Navy report of the sinking of the Bahia, you will observe that the cruiser was adrift with her engines shut down for the ten minutes immediately prior to the explosion. The explosion occurred five seconds after she restarted. The closest a submarine would approach to its target is 600 metres. Calculate the running time for the torpedo. Would you fire an acoustic torpedo if the target was silent? How would you manouevre your U-boat knowing that the slightest sound would betray your position to the listening watch aboard the cruiser? The official Brazilian Navy report states that due to crew negligence, an Oerlikon was discharged into the depth charges stacked on the poop deck. This blew up the ship.

As I say, concentrate your mind on the essential facts, read carefully what is said to you and do not rely on propaganda websites, particularly those professing to have the Pravda.
.

U-Boat 559
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Voyage of U-977 and U-530

Postby U-Boat 559 » 18 Feb 2005 20:18

Hi Ohrdruf.
I bow to your comments.
The only information I have is that from Pravada and other scources.I have not been able to acquire a copy of the Brazilian Naval report, may be you can get a copy. I had no information about the Bahia being stationary, my only information was that she was sunk by acoustic toprpedo and that it was U-977 the culprit.
This still leaves the point of the fresh damage that U-977 had when she docked. Is it possible to acquire a copy of the officialdocuments about the interrogation of U-977's crew?.
Once again my apologies.
Michael(U-559)

ohrdruf
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Postby ohrdruf » 19 Feb 2005 16:32

Dear Michael

I recommend that you read through the "Kriegsmarine" thread "U-boats Unloading on the Argentine Coast" where the story of the loss of "Bahia" with references appears on page 2.

Whereas some contributors are unhappy about German U-boats on the Argentine coast postwar, the reports declassified in the Brazilian and Argentina archives from intelligence, naval and police sources take some explaining away. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that "black boats" for special purposes were prepared in German shipyards and not declared. The Type XXI boat in whose company U-977 sailed from Kiel for Norway in April 1945 has still not been positively identified from the sailing records of U-boats.

The damage to U-977 was probably sustained on the night of 18 July 1945 off La Fuerte at 42 degrees South, a very deep part of the Bahia San Matias, when the Argentine torpedero "Mendoza" depth charged a definite submarine contact tracked all day on on her hydrophones. This is described in a declassified naval report. The interrogation reports of the U-977 crew are available from the US archive. The second set of documents differing from the first is in the Argentine archive: they cannot be photocopied and it means a trip down here if you want to see them.

If you want more on U-530 come through to me on PM with your E-mail address and I will send you some material I have copied out on diskette.

Regards
Ohrdruf

U-Boat 559
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Voyage of U-977 and U-530

Postby U-Boat 559 » 19 Feb 2005 17:24

Hi Ohrdruf,
Just read your messege Thanks for your offer, I would love to see your details from your diskette. I found a site last night but it was in Spanish, I think.
My E-Mail address is MchlDoe@aol.com I lookforward to hearing from you. As to those documents in the Argentine archives I would love to see them but I dont think my wife would agree.
Cheers.
Michael.[/quote]

zmija
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Postby zmija » 16 Oct 2005 13:07

Ohrdruf:

I have read the book on U-977 snorkel voyage:
66 Tage unter Wasser by H. Schäffer ISBN 3-8118-6079-8


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