Polish Uhlans

[Wagjvlsj]

What do you think about Polish Uhlans and what do like and don't like about them.

[eppanzer]

Well trained, high motivated. Fought bravely and hard against outnumbering German armored and motorised units, covering the flangs of the Armies and achieving good results.
Even reserve Uhlan regiments did well against russian tank forces.

[Musashi]

What do you think about Polish Uhlans and what do like and don't like about them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mokra

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

Actually that formation was not called "uhlans". It was called cavalry.

And there were three types of cavalry regiments:

- uhlan regiments
- horse rifle regiments
- chasseur regiments

The only difference between them was their name - organization was the same.

Name was determined by regimental historical tradition.

[polka]

I grew up listening about them, so to me they are elevated , higher even than the pilots.
Now I've grown up and done some research, I feel the same - they encompass why I'm proud to be Polish but it's tinged with pity.
I found the film, Major Hubal - brilliant - what does anyone else think?

[Ponury]

Olso http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bzura

[Luki]

And there were three types of cavalry regiments:

- uhlan regiments
- horse rifle regiments
- chasseur regiments

The only difference between them was their name - organization was the same.

Name was determined by regimental historical tradition.

Name was determined not only by by regimental historical tradition. At the beginning uhlans regiments and chasseurs regiments were form as independent cavalry units. They should make raids over enemy territory. While horse rifle regiments were part of infantry and their main task was reconnaissance and supporting infantry. It was changed during one of cavalry reorganization in 20-ties or 30-ties.

And if we are talking abut cavalry we shouldn't forget about horse artillery divisions (regiments). Generally this unit were independent but during September Campaign or polish-bolshevik war its batteries were assign to cavalry regiments as direct artillery support.

[Musashi]

And if we are talking abut cavalry we shouldn't forget about horse artillery divisions (regiments). Generally this unit were independent but during September Campaign or polish-bolshevik war its batteries were assign to cavalry regiments as direct artillery support.

Of course they were horse artillery battalions and they numbered 12-16 guns. Dywizjon artylerii in Polish is artillery battalion in English. Artillery regiments are much bigger and consist of 3 artillery battalions.

[Luki]

I always have problem with translating polish unit name. Once we discuss with colleagues if it should be horse artillery, horse rifles or mounted artillery, mounted rifles.

[Leo Niehorster]

Some thoughts on designations in the Second World War era:

Artillery
Units with cavalry guns drawn by horses should be identified as "horse artillery", but only if they belong to a cavalry formation. [Some authors use "horsed artillery".]
— The cavalry designation for field guns is cavalry guns. Some modification of the gun carriage might be present.
— Not all artillery drawn by horses is "horse artillery". The divisional artillery, which in some armies also had horse-drawn field guns (guns somewhere in the 70–80mm caliber range, and howitzers up to ~100mm) , is not "horse artillery".
— To confuse the matter, not all units designated as "Horse Artillery" (such as the British Army, which had "Royal Horse Artillery") units were horse-drawn, but were motorized, and even self-propelled.

Cavalry
Units trained to fight while horse-mounted should be identified as "horse cavalry".
— Cavalry formations in WWII encompassed many units, including those horse-mounted, bicycle and motorcycle mounted, horse-drawn, motor-towed, self-propelled, ski and sled equipped.
— For example the Germans had the Kavallerie-Schützen-Regiment, which was a motorized infantry regiment.
— The infantry mounted on horses (i.e., men trained to fight only on foot, but moved from fight to fight on their own horses) were initially called 'Dragoons'. However, this term was soon misused for dedicated cavalry units (i.e., with men who no longer dismounted to fight but stayed on horse-back to do so). Other terms were introduced, such as "Mounted Rifles", "Horsed Rifles", …, but these also soon became another designation for horsed cavalry.
— Of course, real horsed cavalry also dismounted to fight.

In light of the wordwide access to the internet, I recommend that when referring to units by designation, a short note should be included to explain what kind of unit is meant. Either as a short phrase, or as a footnote.
For example:
"… the 1st Mounted Rifle Regiment (a battalion-sized horse cavalry unit) …"
"… the 245th Royal Horse Artillery Regiment (a battalion-sized, self-propelled artillery unit) …"

And your thoughts?

Cheers
Leo

[dor1941]

In light of the wordwide access to the internet, I recommend that when referring to units by designation, a short note should be included to explain what kind of unit is meant. Either as a short phrase, or as a footnote.
For example:
"… the 1st Mounted Rifle Regiment (a battalion-sized horse cavalry unit) …"
"… the 245th Royal Horse Artillery Regiment (a battalion-sized, self-propelled artillery unit) …"

And your thoughts?

An excellent proposal.

When I listed the Samodzielna Brygade Strzelcow Karpackich (SBSK) as part of the Tobruk Garrison in an OOB of Eighth Army in November 1941, I identified the Pulk Ulanow Karpackich as "Lancers serving as an infantry battalion".

Also, I found that Italian cavalry units could be horsed cavalry, or armoured cars, or light tanks, or even non-motorized "foot" machine-gun battalions. With all these variations some explanation is essential.

David R

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

Units trained to fight while horse-mounted should be identified as "horse cavalry".

There was no any unit using horse-mounted combat as their "primary" way of fighting in WW2.

Well, maybe except of Soviet Red Army Cossacks / German Waffen SS Kosaken?

[Leo Niehorster]

My definition of horse-cavalry in WWII would be any horse-mounted soldiers equipped and trained with sabers and even lances. And maybe even used them in combat at some time in the war. That definition also would include Japanese, Chinese, Hungarian and Rumanian. Of course, all horse-cavalry would also have some kind of firearm in WWII.

If the men just had rifles and carbines, they should be dragoons — in the original sense of the word: infantry transported by horse to combat. I cannot think of any country that had those. Probably they would all be transported by motor vehicles or armored vehicles.

Perhaps I am being too picky. In any event, cavalry units need to be specifically identified as to their mobility and possibly even their equipment.

Leo

[Wolfgang ski]

I think these men were incredibly brave and very good at the type of warfare they were trained for. Unfotunately it was the dawn of a new age of combat and they were outdated and outgunned. But there is something very romantic about them. Must be my polish blood but they were incredible.

[Ponury]

Please classmates do not forget the following things. First Polish cavalry was being prepared for war with the Soviet Union, to pacify the steppes, there would be checked. Second, in each brigade Polish cavalry were cannon Bofors 37 mm anti-tank, so the sabers on tanks no lancer does not have to go. German myths and nonsense.