Hello, what wheels are you talking about? GAZ-AA, ZIS-5, YaTB-4, KPM-series or something else?jopaerya wrote:Hello Friends
The wheels look very much like the Russian one's
Regards Jos
ID of French artillery piece
Re: ID of French artillery piece
With best regards, Ilya.
Re: ID of French artillery piece
The wheels of the gun , regards Jos
Re: ID of French artillery piece
Well, maybe my English is not good enough. I wrote these abbreviations not as vehicles names, but wheels patterns.jopaerya wrote:The wheels of the gun , regards Jos
With best regards, Ilya.
Re: ID of French artillery piece
Hi Ilya
It's not your English but my lack of knowledge of Russian wheels . I thought
the wheels on the picture's had handles just like on some Russian guns .
Regards Jos
It's not your English but my lack of knowledge of Russian wheels . I thought
the wheels on the picture's had handles just like on some Russian guns .
Regards Jos
Re: ID of French artillery piece
I can't see the handles (could you mark them please?) but AFAIK that the only pattern that had handles was KPM-series.jopaerya wrote:Hi Ilya
It's not your English but my lack of knowledge of Russian wheels . I thought
the wheels on the picture's had handles just like on some Russian guns .
Regards Jos
According to my information these series were started in early 1930s by developing a steel wheel (probably with hard rubber tyres) to replace the wooden wheels on 76-mm regimental gun M1927. In 1936 a wheel with sponged rubber (so-called "GK", ГК) tyre for 76-mm divisional guns M1902/30 entered serial production (later a visually indistinguishable modification also accepted for F-22 M1936, and 122-mm divisional howitzer M1938 was initially designed for such wheels, and so on).
Wheels of these series had different width and bearing capacity. They had overall diameter around 1.2–1.3 m, which is slightly more than 1.15 m (11.25x20 tyres) of Berliet GDR.
With best regards, Ilya.
Re: A mysterious artillery piece of French resistance
I think now it is the 57mm Zis-2 Anti tank gun (in towing position) on the carriage of the 76mm 1902/30 field gun.ain92 wrote:Nobody for the last question? If so, I'll post a more enigmatic picture. I think the photo was made during the parade of the Armée secrète in Saint-Étienne on 25 August 1944.
The artillery piece towed by a Berliet GDRAG seems to be an improvisation made for anti-tank purposes from a tipping part of some navy, coastal or AA gun of appr. 75-mm calibre (a bit similar to late modification of Cannone da 75/46, but not an exact fit) and a carriage of some WWI heavy field artillery piece (neither 105 L Mle 1913 or 155 C Mle 1917).
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Re: ID of French artillery piece
Nuyt, is there a "step" in the barrel of this mystery gun or is it just an optical illusion ? The breech end certain looks like a Zis 2 or 3 to me though.
Alan
Re: ID of French artillery piece
Dont know if its stepped, at first I thought so as well..
On second thought the chances that it is a 76mm Zis 3 on the boxtrail carriage are higher than a 57mm in France I reckon.
On second thought the chances that it is a 76mm Zis 3 on the boxtrail carriage are higher than a 57mm in France I reckon.
Re: ID of French artillery piece
For those who can read French, this gun was discussed on the French forum ATF 40. While no definite identification was found, the conclusion was that the gun could be one of the 75 mm "puissant" guns from St-Chamond derived from the 75 mm Mle 1918 St-Chamond. Several of these guns could have been hidden from the Germans by the French during the Occupation :
http://atf40.forumculture.net/t7509-une ... 1944#60845
Also fron the same ATF40 thread, the truck/lorry is not a Berliet GDRAG since the final G means "Gazogene" i.e. wood-burning and it is probably not a GDRA truck as too light for it. It could be a Berliet GDM .
Emmanuel
http://atf40.forumculture.net/t7509-une ... 1944#60845
Also fron the same ATF40 thread, the truck/lorry is not a Berliet GDRAG since the final G means "Gazogene" i.e. wood-burning and it is probably not a GDRA truck as too light for it. It could be a Berliet GDM .
Emmanuel
Re: ID of French artillery piece
Hi Emanuel, I have read the French forum as well and they say the CARRIAGE (affût) resembles a St Chamond 1918 gun carriage, not the gun as such. Another person like me also comes up with the Russian 76mm 1902/30 boxtrail carriage (added after 1930 on the advice of the Rheinmetall Bütast engineers working in Russia, to increase the range of the gun).
It would be interesting to ID the German units in and around St Etienne. I have googled a bit but the area appears to have been an important armament production centre (St Chamond and FAMAS) and there were some reserve units. Who fought there in August 44 I dont know. The Berliet and gun could easily been just captured from the Germans and not come from CDM stocks.
It would be interesting to ID the German units in and around St Etienne. I have googled a bit but the area appears to have been an important armament production centre (St Chamond and FAMAS) and there were some reserve units. Who fought there in August 44 I dont know. The Berliet and gun could easily been just captured from the Germans and not come from CDM stocks.
Re: ID of French artillery piece
Hi all,
Any idea about the gun on the red circle ?
Image from Ebay
Sturm78
Any idea about the gun on the red circle ?
Image from Ebay
Sturm78
Re: ID of French artillery piece
The protection plate and the hand wheel next to the breach are the same ones as for the French 25 mm Mle 1937 (compare with the 25 mm Mle 1937 on the right of the picture). The tires seem identical to some versions of the French 47 mm Mle 1937. And the wheels seem to come from the 47 mm Mle 1936 Schneider. See pictures on the following thread ("Romanian AT gun"):Sturm78 wrote:Hi all,
Any idea about the gun on the red circle ?
Image from Ebay
Sturm78
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=149160
Therefore, I think the gun is a 25 mm Mle 1937 but with different wheels, probably hastily put together from left-overs of the Romanian 47 mm Mle 1937 export order, and a different shield. It would explain why the gun circled by Sturm78 in red and the identical one to its right were placed with other captured 25 mm French AT guns by the Germans.
Emmanuel
Re: ID of French artillery piece
Uummmhhh....probably you are right, EmmanuelEmmanuel wrote
The protection plate and the hand wheel next to the breach are the same ones as for the French 25 mm Mle 1937 (compare with the 25 mm Mle 1937 on the right of the picture). The tires seem identical to some versions of the French 47 mm Mle 1937. And the wheels seem to come from the 47 mm Mle 1936 Schneider. See pictures on the following thread ("Romanian AT gun"):
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=149160
Therefore, I think the gun is a 25 mm Mle 1937 but with different wheels, probably hastily put together from left-overs of the Romanian 47 mm Mle 1937 export order, and a different shield. It would explain why the gun circled by Sturm78 in red and the identical one to its right were placed with other captured 25 mm French AT guns by the Germans.
Thanks for your answer
Regards Sturm78
Re: ID of French artillery piece
Hi Emmanuel,Emmanuel wrote
The protection plate and the hand wheel next to the breach are the same ones as for the French 25 mm Mle 1937 (compare with the 25 mm Mle 1937 on the right of the picture). The tires seem identical to some versions of the French 47 mm Mle 1937. And the wheels seem to come from the 47 mm Mle 1936 Schneider. See pictures on the following thread ("Romanian AT gun"):
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=149160
Therefore, I think the gun is a 25 mm Mle 1937 but with different wheels, probably hastily put together from left-overs of the Romanian 47 mm Mle 1937 export order, and a different shield. It would explain why the gun circled by Sturm78 in red and the identical one to its right were placed with other captured 25 mm French AT guns by the Germans.
Another image of this rare gun (from Ebay):
Sturm78
Re: ID of French artillery piece
Sturm78,
Very interesting to see the front of this unknown gun. It looks like an ad-hoc assembly based on the 25 mm barrel. Let me check with a French forum on the French Army in 1940.
Emmanuel
The use of a larger cylinder tappering into a smaller barrel reminds me of two other AT guns:
- the 45mm PTP M1941 (USSR)
Source: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... start=2055
- the HiH Siderius 5cm L50 (The Netherlands)
Source: http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... er+picture
Very interesting to see the front of this unknown gun. It looks like an ad-hoc assembly based on the 25 mm barrel. Let me check with a French forum on the French Army in 1940.
Emmanuel
The use of a larger cylinder tappering into a smaller barrel reminds me of two other AT guns:
- the 45mm PTP M1941 (USSR)
Source: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... start=2055
- the HiH Siderius 5cm L50 (The Netherlands)
Source: http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... er+picture