Info needed on renault 36R tracteur

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Franzl Rider
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Info needed on renault 36R tracteur

#1

Post by Franzl Rider » 28 Oct 2007, 11:23

I am looking for some info on the Renault 36R tracteur. Is it a development from the Renault UE? Can anyone give me some info about it's history? or some links to it? I've looked but zip..


Here are some pictures from ebay.

Franzl
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Franzl Rider
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Renault 36R

#2

Post by Franzl Rider » 28 Oct 2007, 11:24

second picture
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David Lehmann
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#3

Post by David Lehmann » 28 Oct 2007, 14:11

RENAULT 36R TRC (tracteur de ravitaillement de chars = tanks supply tractor)
Hello,

The Renault ACD1 designed in the French army as Renault 36R TRC ((tracteur de ravitaillement de chars = tanks supply tractor) was a tank unit supply tractor.
It shared common elements with the Renault UE tractor (wheels and suspension elements, engine).
It was adopted in 1936 and the production started in 1938. 260 vehicles had been delivered in 1940. It was seen as very inferior to the Lorraine 37L TRC, which was also an armored tractor.
The tractor carried ammunition for the tanks (live load 822 kg) and towed a tracked trailer with a 450 liters fuel tank, 18 oil cans, 8 grease boxes, a pump and tools (live load 600 kg).

Weight: 2.7t (live load 1.4 t).
Length: 3.15m
Width: 1.70m
Height: 1.90m
Crew: 2 men
Maximum speed: 35 km/h (Renault engine, 4 cylinders, 38 hp at 2500 rpm, 2120 cm3), 28 km/h with maximum loads and with the trailer.
Transmission: 4 forward, 1 reverse

Regards,

David

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David Lehmann
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#4

Post by David Lehmann » 28 Oct 2007, 14:24

1. Renault ACD1 tractors near Toul (June 1940) from "L'automobile sous l'uniforme".

2. ACD1 N° 97215

David
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Michael Emrys
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#5

Post by Michael Emrys » 28 Oct 2007, 14:34

Just to be clear, this vehicle was not armored, was it, David?

Michael

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David Lehmann
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#6

Post by David Lehmann » 28 Oct 2007, 14:43

Hello Michael,

No indeed, my sentence might have been confusing. Unlike the Renault tractor, the Lorraine 37L was armored. The ACD1 is roughly a softskin tracked tractor.

LORRAINE 37L TRC (tracteur de ravitaillement de chars = tanks supply tractor)
The Lorraine 37L TRC was a tank unit supply carrier. It towed generally a tracked trailer with a 565 liters fuel tank, grease boxes, water, tools and a pump. The tractor itself carried ammunition and various supplies. 482 vehicles were delivered to the French army from 1937 to June 1940. The tractor was appreciated for his cross country capacities and its armored protection.

Weight: 5.24t for the tractor + 1.2t for the trailer (live load 0.81t + 0.69t = 1.5t)
Length: 4.22m (+ 2.70m for the trailer)
Height: 1.21m (1.30m for the trailer)
Width: 1.60m
Crew: 2 men
Maximum armor: 9 mm on the sides, front and rear and 6 mm for the top and roof
Maximum speed: 35 km/h
Engine: Delahaye engine, inline 6 cylinders type 135, 70 hp at 2800 rpm and 87 hp at 3100 rpm, 3550 cc, maximum torque = 24 m.kg at 1500 rpm
Fuel capacity: 44 + 45 + 25 = 114 liters
Transmission: 5 forward, 1 reverse
Autonomy: 135 km
Maximum water depth: 0.6 m
Maximum climbable vertical obstacle height: 1.30 m
Maximum climbable slope: 55 %

Theoretical speeds per gear ratio, with engine giving 2800 rpm:
gear 1: 4.2 km/h
gear 2: 6.8 km/h
gear 3: 13 km/h
gear 4: 22 km/h
gear 5: 35 km/h
reverse: 4.3 km/h

David

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David Lehmann
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#7

Post by David Lehmann » 28 Oct 2007, 15:32

More about Lorraine tractors:

During occupation, the Lorraine factory at Bagnères de Bigorre continued secretely to prepare the resistance against the Germans. Civilian Lorraine 37L tractors are produced for forestry works and secretely everything was prepared to transform them in armed armored tractor, also able to tow a gun. These vehicles were planned to arm the partisans. The armored plates were produced and stored. After the invasion of the southern area in November 1942, all the secret parts are hidden, even in private houses. The plans to install armored plates and to install weapons on these vehicles were never found by the Germans.

During summer 1944 the transformation of Lorraine 37L forestry tractors in so-called Lorraine 37L44 begins with about 20 vehicles produced (150 have been ordered). Part of them are modified, with a casemate and armed with a Hotchkiss Mle1914 MG and part are open-top tractors, a bit like a British carrier and armed with a 7.5mm Mle1931 'Reibel' MG. About 30 additional Lorraine 38L (the APC version) have been modified in 1944 by the Lorraine factory and armed with booty German MG151/15 (15mm) aircraft MG mounted in an armored casemate. These vehicles fought with the French Forces of the Interior (FFI). As the Germans retreated more Lorraine tractors were seized, converted and re-armed.

The Free French in Great-Britain also made at least a prototype with a Lorraine 37L equipped with a 17 Pdr AT gun and a muzzle brake.

Source for the photos = Pierre Touzin books [Except the 17 Pdr one, I cannot remember].

David
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Lorraine chassis and 17 Pdr AT gun.jpg
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Lorraine 38L modified in 1944 (German aircraft heavy MG)_01.jpg
Lorraine 38L modified in 1944 (German aircraft heavy MG)_01.jpg (39.78 KiB) Viewed 4779 times
Lorraine 37L modified in 1944 (8mm Mle1914 Hotchkiss MG).jpg
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Michael Emrys
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#8

Post by Michael Emrys » 29 Oct 2007, 01:38

David, thanks ever so much for the information and photos. I had never heard of the 1944 modifications to the Lorraine, much less seen photos of them. That's a very peculiar muzzle brake on the 17 pdr. Something else I've never seen before. Was that expected to be compatible with the APDS shot? Ingenious.

Michael

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Ostkatze
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Ingenious

#9

Post by Ostkatze » 29 Oct 2007, 05:06

I would say incroyable.

You could make a small fortune putting that look on spinners for a Denali or an Escalade.

Seriously, though, there has been a little chatter in here lately about German production of French types. The Lorraine Schlepper is an obvious candidate. Was the Renault 36R capable of sporting more than a 2.1 litre? That thing is just too cute. Neil ( Leon si tu veux. ).

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David Lehmann
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#10

Post by David Lehmann » 29 Oct 2007, 18:46

Michael Emrys wrote:David, thanks ever so much for the information and photos. I had never heard of the 1944 modifications to the Lorraine, much less seen photos of them. That's a very peculiar muzzle brake on the 17 pdr. Something else I've never seen before. Was that expected to be compatible with the APDS shot? Ingenious.

Michael
I don't remember much more information about the 17 Pdr trial but one can note that there are several French roots in the later British developments of the APDS shells.
The French company Brandt developed a series of sub-calibrated HVAP/APCR/APHC shells. On June 14, 1940, the French war ministry authorized Brandt to give all these information and patent exploitation to the USA and the United Kingdom. These sub-calibrated shells were used in the UK as basis to develop the APDS shells for the 6 Pdr and 17 Pdr AT guns.

Regards,

David

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Franzl Rider
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Renault 36R

#11

Post by Franzl Rider » 02 Nov 2007, 10:20

Many thanks on the info and pics. Any more info is very welcome.
Here from exp. ebaysale another Renault 36R.
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ringo
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Re: Info needed on renault 36R tracteur

#12

Post by ringo » 13 Feb 2010, 20:46

Lorraine tractor with 17lb, was this vehicle brought to England from France after D-Day or perhaps from Norway to England 1940?

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