French Shipyards Names help

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Idomeneas
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French Shipyards Names help

#1

Post by Idomeneas » 19 Dec 2009, 16:57

I recently had the chance to read some articles in newspapers of the Inter-war era, regarding orders made by the Hellenic Navy between 1925-1927 to french shipyards.
I was confused about the various names that were mentioned in the greek newspapers. So, I would appreciate if any French friend can help me by writing the correct name of the below companies, along with the location of the shipyards.

Benoua
Schneider
Louar (Saint Germain?)
Forge Saintier (Toulon?)
Forge e Santie de la Meditteran
Provensalle

Thanks Idomeneas

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Prosper Vandenbroucke
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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#2

Post by Prosper Vandenbroucke » 19 Dec 2009, 22:35

Hi Idomeneas

Benoua :
Could be "Beneteau" at Saint Gilles Croix de Vie ( But not sure at all)

Schneider
Forge Saintier (Toulon?)

Those two societies are normaly at this moment under the same name:
"Forges et Chantiers de la Gironde" at Lormont (Gironde)
formely known under the name of " Chantiers et Ateliers de la Gironde - Schneider S.A."
They made war ships of the Bourrasque and Bougainville class

Louar (Saint Germain?) ????? Unknown

Forge e Santie de la Meditteran: must be:
"Forges et Chantiers de la Méditerranée" at La Seyne-sur-Mer.

Provensalle:
Could be "Société provençale de construction navale" but the name was changed into:
"Chantiers navales de La Ciotat at La Ciotat ( Bouches du Rhône) Closed in 1988

Hope it helps and I hope also a french reader will confirm what I found out
Kindly regards from Belgium and apoliges for my poor english
Prosper :wink:


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Manuferey
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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#3

Post by Manuferey » 20 Dec 2009, 00:25

Louar (Saint Germain?): it could be "Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire (ACL)" in Nantes.

In French, "louar" and "loire" would be pronounced the same way.

Emmanuel

Idomeneas
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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#4

Post by Idomeneas » 20 Dec 2009, 08:21

Thank you both Prosper Vandenbroucke and Manuferey for your help.

Benoua :
Could be "Beneteau" at Saint Gilles Croix de Vie ( But not sure at all).
OK, just to confirm that this "Beneteau" is a shipyard company?

Louar (Saint Germain?):
it could be "Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire (ACL)" in Nantes. In French, "louar" and "loire" would be pronounced the same way.
Ok, I believe the correct name is Loire, but can you just confirm that this "Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire (ACL)" is a shipyard company?

Thank you again.
Idomeneas

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Prosper Vandenbroucke
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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#5

Post by Prosper Vandenbroucke » 20 Dec 2009, 11:46

Idomeneas wrote:Thank you both Prosper Vandenbroucke and Manuferey for your help.

Benoua :
Could be "Beneteau" at Saint Gilles Croix de Vie ( But not sure at all).
OK, just to confirm that this "Beneteau" is a shipyard company?
Yes it was a shipyard:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9n%C3%A9teau
Louar (Saint Germain?):
it could be "Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire (ACL)" in Nantes. In French, "louar" and "loire" would be pronounced the same way.
Ok, I believe the correct name is Loire, but can you just confirm that this "Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire (ACL)" is a shipyard company?
Yes it was also a shipyard:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ateliers_e ... e_la_Loire

Thank you again.
Idomeneas
Have a good sunday
Regards
Prosper :wink:

Idomeneas
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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#6

Post by Idomeneas » 20 Dec 2009, 14:06

Thank you again Prosper Vandenbroucke.

Regards
Idomeneas

takata_1940
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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#7

Post by takata_1940 » 22 Dec 2009, 02:03

Hi,
Idomeneas wrote:I recently had the chance to read some articles in newspapers of the Inter-war era, regarding orders made by the Hellenic Navy between 1925-1927 to french shipyards.
Benoua
Schneider
Louar (Saint Germain?)
Forge Saintier (Toulon?)
Forge e Santie de la Meditteran
Provensalle
Here is a list of the (private) French naval units shipbuilding companies.
. Name, shipyard(s), (manpower 1938; Nr. x ship's length capacity)

. Chantiers et Ateliers de St Nazaire-Penhoët, St Nazaire & Gd-Quevilly (5,500/ 1,200; 5 x 175-310 m/ 5 x 75-130 m)
(-> "Benoua"= Penhoët)
. Établissements Schneider, Chalon-sur-Saône (750; engines & equipment + coastal submarines)
(-> "Schneider")
. Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire, Nantes & St Nazaire (1,950/ 2,100; 4 x 140-190 m/ 2 x 165-230 m)
(->"Louar")
. Forges et Chantiers de la Gironde, Bordeaux (1,950; 4 x 130-220 m)
(->"Forge Saintier")
. Forges et Chantiers de la Méditerranée, Graville & La Seyne-sur-mer (1,410/ 2,580; 4 x 140 m/ 5 x 210 m)
(->"Forge e Santie de la Meditteran")
. Société Provençale de Constructions Navales, Marseille (900; equipment & small vessels)
(->"Provensalle")

. Ateliers et Chantiers Augustin-Normand, Le Havre (800; 6 x 100-150 m)
. Ateliers et Chantiers de Bretagne, Nantes (2,960; 3 x 100-150 m)
. Chantiers Navals de Caen, Blainville-sur-Orne (closed; 7 x 150-200 m)
. Chantiers Navals de La Ciotat, La Ciotat (2,250; 2 x 150-200 m)
. Anciens Chantiers Dubigeon, Nantes & Brest (1,100/ 280; 5 x 95-150 m)
. Ateliers et Chantiers de France, Dunkerque (2,200; 6 x 150-200 m)
. Chantiers Navals de La Pallice, La Pallice (750, 2 x 110-180 m)
. Chantiers et Ateliers de Provence, Marseille & Port-de-Bouc (870/ 980; 6 x 125-150 m)
. Ateliers et Chantiers de la Seine-Maritime, Le Trait (1,230; 8 x 135-190 m)

Idomeneas
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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#8

Post by Idomeneas » 22 Dec 2009, 19:38

Thank you takata_1940 for your very detailed information.
Thank you all guys that helped me.

Idomeneas

Parafin
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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#9

Post by Parafin » 12 Nov 2010, 22:37

takata_1940 wrote: Here is a list of the (private) French naval units shipbuilding companies.
. Name, shipyard(s), (manpower 1938; Nr. x ship's length capacity)
Help me please, too.
The same information for other French shipyards

АВ - Arsenal de Brest
AL - Arsenale de Lorient
AC - Arsenal de Cherbourg
AT - Arsenal de Toulone
AR - Arsenal de Rochefort

CNF - Chantiers Navals Francais (caen)
CMSO - Chantiers Maritimes du Sud Quest
DB - Dyle et Bacalan
CN - Chantiers de Normandie
CS - Chantiers de Saigon

kender
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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#10

Post by kender » 15 Nov 2010, 09:38

I would be interested, too, takata_1940

Edit :
AT - Arsenal de Toulon (not Toulone)

takata_1940
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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#11

Post by takata_1940 » 15 Nov 2010, 15:38

The same information for other French shipyards
АВ - Arsenal de Brest
AL - Arsenale de Lorient
AC - Arsenal de Cherbourg
AT - Arsenal de Toulone
AR - Arsenal de Rochefort
The arsenal of Rochefort was closed in 1927. Its last ship built was in 1900 and its largest radoub bassin was about 130 m long.

Other main French Navy establishments in percentage of total activity were:
First category:
. Toulon (23%) - shipbuilding incl. largest ship.
. Brest (21%) - shipbuilding incl. largest ship.
. Cherbourg (12%) - shipbuiliding sp. submarines, small units;
. Lorient (11%) - shipbuilding sp. cruisers, destroyers.

(about 60% of the Naval shipbuilding was issued to private companies).

Second category:
. Bizerte (7%) - repair
. Saïgon (5%) - repair
. Oran (4%) - repair
. Dakar (4%) - repair
. Diégo-Suarez (2%) - repair

Outside Ports:
. Indret (4%) near Nantes, sp. machinery;
. Ruelle (3%) near Angoulême, sp. foundery;
. Guérigny (2%) near Nevers, sp. equipments;
. Saint-Tropez (2%) sp. torpedoes.

For personnel, I've got 1938 arsenal's figures in metropolitan France:
. Arsenal: shipb.... Artil... Total
. Cherbourg: 3,400.... 700.... 4,100
. Brest:.....5,700...1,800.... 7,500
. Lorient:...3,300.... 900.... 4,200
. Toulon:....6,900...3,300... 10,200
. Indret:....1,300............ 1,300
. Guérigny:....709.............. 709
. Ruelle:............1,945.... 1,945
Total.......21,309...8,645... 29,954

See below for other Arsenal's facilities.
CNF - Chantiers Navals Francais (caen)
CMSO - Chantiers Maritimes du Sud Quest
DB - Dyle et Bacalan
CN - Chantiers de Normandie
CS - Chantiers de Saigon
a) "Chantiers Navals Français (Caen)", see my post above under the name: Chantiers Navals de Caen, Blainville-sur-Orne (closed in 1938; 7 x 150-200 m)
in fact, it was called "Chantiers Navals de Caen" after 1945. Pre-war, it was still "Chantiers Navals Français".

b) "Chantiers Maritimes du Sud-Ouest" and "Dyle et Bacalan (Bordeaux). This was the same company prewar: both were side by side and were merged in 1930 under the name: "Ateliers et Chantiers Maritimes du Sud-Ouest et de Bacalan réunis".. Last ship built was in 1936, (launched 28.01.1936). They made 1 pétrolier, 3 torpilleurs and 3 avisos coloniaux during the 1930s'. They employed about 1,700 people but did not survive the war. They were situated in front of another powerfull shipbuilding company: "Société des Ateliers et Chantiers de la Gironde" which belonged to the Schneider group and had a deeper water on its side of the river.

c) "Chantiers de Normandie", see "Chantiers et Ateliers de St Nazaire-Penhoët" at Grand-Quévilly.

d) "Chantiers de Saïgon". I don't know about this one if different from the Navy arsenal of Saïgon. If so, this is only a repair company with limited ability (nothing more than small river ships).

........................
Here is a list of the drydocks (formes de radoub) and floatting docks in French ports and Navy arsenals:

Dunkerque
. 200x25 (dock flottant 1)
. 200x25 (dock flottant 2)
.. 80x20 (radoub 4)
. 170x28 (radoub 5)

Calais
. 153x20 (radoub)

Dieppe
. 107x18 (radoub)

Le Havre
.. 65x09 (radoub 1)
.. 68x11 (radoub 2)
.. 85x14 (radoub 3)
. 177x23 (radoub 4)
. 156x18 (radoub 5)
. 124x14 (radoub 6)
. 313x37 (radoub 7)

Rouen
. 181x25 (dock flottant 1)
. 150x25 (dock flottant 2)
. 110x20 (dock flottant 3)
. 110x20 (dock flottant 4)

Cherbourg
.. 72x13 (radoub)

Arsenal de Cherbourg
.. 90x17 (radoub 1)
. 100x17 (radoub 2)
. 100x17 (radoub 3)
.. 90x17 (radoub 4)
. 200x25 (radoub 5)
. 180x21 (radoub 6)
.. 69x17 (radoub 7)
. 235x36 (radoub du Homet)

Brest
. 225x27 (radoub)

Arsenal de Brest
. 116x19 (de Tourville 1)
. 179x27 (de Tourville 2)
. 179x33 (Fantaniou 3)
. 205x36 (Salou 4)
.. 69x14 (Salou 6)
. 118x18 (Salou 7)
. 250x36 (Laninon 8)
. 250x36 (Laninon 9)

Arsenal de Lorient
. 138x16 (radoub 1)
. 183x26 (radoub 2)
. 199x36 (radoub 3)

Saint-Nazaire
. 234x30 (radoub 1)
. 117x10 (radoub 2)
. 159x14 (radoub 3)
. 359x50 (forme-écluse)
. 325x45 (bassin de construction de la Loire)

La Rochelle-Pallice
. 176x22 (radoub 1)
. 107x14 (radoub 2)

Bordeaux
. 150x18 (radoub 1)
. 105x16 (radoub 2)
. 202x33 (cale-sèche des chantiers de la Gironde)

Bayonne
. 100x15 (radoub)

Marseille
. 172x20 (radoub 1)
. 137x18 (radoub 2)
.. 87x13 (radoub 3)
.. 87x13 (radoub 4)
. 123x14 (radoub 5)
. 126x16 (radoub 6)
. 206x25 (radoub 7)

La Ciotat
. 163x25 (radoub)

Arsenal de Toulon
.. 75x15 (Vauban 1)
.. 73x15 (Vauban 2)
.. 90x15 (Vauban 3)
. 198x27 (Missiessy 1)
. 198x27 (Missiessy 2)
. 173x27 (Missiessy 3)
. 415x36 (gd bassin Vauban 1)
. 415x36 (gd bassin Vauban 2)

Villefranche
. 163x25 (radoub)

Arsenal de Bizerte (Tunisie)
. 199x27 (radoub 1)
. 251x36 (radoub 2)
.. 90x13 (radoub 3)
. 199x29 (radoub 4)

Arsenal de Dakar (Sénégal)
. 187x25 (radoub)

Arsenal de Diégo-Suarez (Madagascar)
. 182x30 (radoub)

Arsenal de Saïgon (Indochine)
. 158x20 (radoub)

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mescal
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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#12

Post by mescal » 15 Nov 2010, 17:58

Fantastic stuff, Olivier.
Thank you for sharing.

Just a little question : where do these data come from ? (I've not found any good systematic source on French shipyards ...yet)
Olivier

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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#13

Post by Parafin » 15 Nov 2010, 18:40

To takata_1940

Thank you very much

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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#14

Post by takata_1940 » 15 Nov 2010, 18:54

Hi Mescal,
mescal wrote:Fantastic stuff, Olivier.
Thank you for sharing.

Just a little question : where do these data come from ? (I've not found any good systematic source on French shipyards ...yet)
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought I had given the source above.
It's taken from:
Jean Latty, Traité d'économie maritime, Paris, imprimerie nationale 1951. Tome I, livres I & II, "La construction navale". I picked the stuff from various tables all over the two volumes. I've got the Tome II also which is about "Les transports maritimes".

I'll post later few tables I've made about the slipways and cranes/lift capacity for the main private shipyards.
S~
Olivier

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Re: French Shipyards Names help

#15

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 11 Apr 2015, 11:54

Reviving this thread as I am seeking information on the capability of the North African ports. What their ability to sustain and repair warships was. The Oliver is beyond my reach at the moment & any other source or information would be welcome.

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