French Air Force - mid June 1940

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jony663
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French Air Force - mid June 1940

#1

Post by jony663 » 26 Dec 2014, 06:03

While I have good references of the French groups and aircraft available at the start of the campaign and than after the German took, sold or destroyed after the establishment of Vichy, I am missing a reference to the status of the groups and air craft at the end but before the Germans. Do these exist?

Thank you
Jon

durb
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Re: French Air Force - mid June 1940

#2

Post by durb » 26 Dec 2014, 20:53

According to French Aces of World War 2 (Ketley 1999) the French fighter force by the July 1940 was following:
- France: seven fighter groups (GC) mostly with Bloch 151/152 and two nightfighter groups with Potez 631.
- North Africa: seven fighter groups (GC) with Hawk 75 and Dewoitine 520
- Syria: three GC
- Indo-China: EC II/595
- Madagaskar and other colonies had only few planes

The combat losses in airwar against Germany 1939 - 1940: 294 fighters lost in air combat, about 100 fighters destroyed on the ground and 38 shot down by flak. Of these losses only 28 fighters were lost during "phoneywar" on 3.9.1939 - 9.5.1940.


jony663
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Re: French Air Force - mid June 1940

#3

Post by jony663 » 26 Dec 2014, 22:45

durb wrote:According to French Aces of World War 2 (Ketley 1999) the French fighter force by the July 1940 was following:
- France: seven fighter groups (GC) mostly with Bloch 151/152 and two nightfighter groups with Potez 631.
- North Africa: seven fighter groups (GC) with Hawk 75 and Dewoitine 520
- Syria: three GC
- Indo-China: EC II/595
- Madagaskar and other colonies had only few planes

The combat losses in airwar against Germany 1939 - 1940: 294 fighters lost in air combat, about 100 fighters destroyed on the ground and 38 shot down by flak. Of these losses only 28 fighters were lost during "phoneywar" on 3.9.1939 - 9.5.1940.
The Hark 75s and D.520 came over after the surrender as there was only a single group of Bloch 152s in North Africa at the begining of June. Funny thing is, I just need to move the dates of the reports by a couple of weeks to get what I want. Unfortunatly the French were busy and I do not have access to any Germany documents for the period in question.

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henryk
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Re: French Air Force - mid June 1940

#4

Post by henryk » 27 Dec 2014, 21:48

For more information, click on the links in the source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Air ... quote]List of Polish units based on Bartłomiej Belcarz's research and publications.[4][10]
Armée de l'Air, May 10, 1940 - Zone d´Operations Aériennes des Alpes
Groupe de Chasse de Varsovie at Lyon-Bron
Groupe de Chasse GC I/145 at Lyon-Bron and at Dreux
Section no.1 Łaszkiewicz GC III/2
Section no.2 Pentz GC II/6
Section no.3 Sulerzycki GC III/6
Section no.4 Bursztyn GC III/1
Section no.5 Brzeziński GC I/2
Section no.6 Goettel GC II/7
Jasionowski Koolhoven Flight
DAT section Krasnodębski GC I/55 based at Châteaudun and Étampes
DAT section Skiba GC I/55
DAT section Kuzian based at Nantes
DAT section Opulski based at Romorantin
DAT section Krasnodębski based at Toulouse-Francazal
Centre d'Instruction d'Aviation de Chasse at Montpellier
Ecole de Pilotage No 1 (Chasse) at Etampes
Ecole de Pilotage at Avord
Centre d'Instruction at Tours
Depot d'Instruction de l'Aviation Polonaise at Lyon-Bron
Montpellier Flight[/quote]

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: French Air Force - mid June 1940

#5

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 28 Dec 2014, 03:26

David Lehmann would be one good source to ask. he psots OB material here regularly. Also track down a 'Bronsky'. He has done a fair amount of original research and may have some missing details for you.

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Loïc
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Re: French Air Force - mid June 1940

#6

Post by Loïc » 28 Dec 2014, 23:01

Hello

I am not specialist of the Armée de l'Air but
1782 planes were lost by the French Air Army
http://histoiremesure.revues.org/4040
Image

according to
Claude d'Abzac-Epezy
L'Armée de l'Air de Vichy 1940-1944 SHAA 1997
535 planes were destroyed in air combats and 54 damaged
231 destroyed on soil
413 accidentally destroyed and 333 damaged

total 1179 destroyed
grand total 1566 destroyed and damaged of which 1033 in may and june 1940

Ketley's text seems to give only the post-Armistice organisation, as said in an other thread the 18th 19th 20th june 1940 39 groups were withdrawn from metropolitan France and sent to North Africa
http://www.cairn.info/revue-guerres-mon ... page-7.htm


the wikipedia list seems to mix not only true "Polish units" but also French training centers receiving Polish pilots, e.g. Training Centers of "Montpellier" (for the Chasse) and "Tours" (for Recce) but there was also Clermont-Ferrand (Aulnat) who was a major training center for the Poles

Regards
Loïc

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Re: French Air Force - mid June 1940

#7

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 05 Jan 2015, 04:27

This seems a good a place as any to cast a line. My notes are short on information for expected aircraft production through 1940, and on to 1942. Can any experts here provide a quick outline, answer questions, or point to some proper sources on the subject?

I supose the same question for pilot training applies as well. thanks to anyone who can advise on this.

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