ChristopherPerrien wrote:Thanks for the above stuff. You got any figures on the KIA/DOW/WIA of these two casualty figures? 200,400 and 8,704
Sorry, I tried to post this last night but couldn't for some reason.
I made a fundamental error in making that post, I forgot to check what the table I used from the Attrition Handbook actually said....
Those figures are actually "typical 12 months of 40 month period from December 1941 to March 1945" and they also included Cavalry with Armor (since officers were not commissioned into Armor at that time, it being technically a 'force' and not a 'branch'). The actual Army totals, from the Adjutant Generals Final Report are:
Total Battle Casualties - 936,259
Total Deaths - 234,874
Total KIA - 198,856 (includes KIA while captured and MIA declared dead)
DOW - 26,762
Died of other causes - 9,256 (while captured or missing)
Captured, returned to military control - 111,426
WIA, not died - 589,959
Of those Armored Force losses were:
Total Battle Casualties - 6827
Total Deaths - 1,581
Total KIA - 1,407
DOW - 167
Other deaths - 7
Captured, returned to military control - 414
WIA, not died - 4,832
Of those Cavalry losses were:
Total Battle Casualties - 21,703
Total Deaths - 5,135
Total KIA - 3,963
DOW - 913
Other deaths - 259
Captured, returned to military control - 1,851
WIA, not died - 14,717
Of those Infantry losses were:
Total Battle Casualties - 661,059
Total Deaths - 142,962
Total KIA - 120,111
DOW - 19,799
Other causes - 3,052
Captured, not returned to military control - 52,299
WIA, not died - 465,798
What's with the
business? I am dead serious.
I was afraid of that. I just don't have time right now do go round and round with you again.
Even if it is fun.
IIRC the percentage of KIA/DOW (not all casualties) was higher in the Armor, which is why I would like some breakdown figures for it. Somewhere of the order of 40-45% ,compared to 25-30%, IIRC.
DOW as a percentage of KIA for Armor+Cavalry was 20.11 percent (but for Armor alone it was 11.87), for Infantry it was 16.48 percent, so wounding may have been slightly more severe on average. The ratio of KIA+DOW to WIA for Armor+Cavalry was 6,450:19,549 or 1:3.03 (for Armor alone it was 1:3.07). For Infantry it was 139,910:465,798 or 1:3.33.
Anyway you slice it, except for the KIA:DOW ratio, it was safer to be in a tank than to be an infantryman.
It's been many years since I have read anything about it though, but the gist of whatever I vaguely recall was,"There was greater chance of being killed in a tank than, "on the ground"". Dying is usually worse than getting wounded.
Actually, the best indications are that about one-half the armored vehicle crew losses may have been incurred while outside the tank.
On another note/topic, it may well be that Bomber crewman positions were a more fatal job, over either tankers or infantry. And US Submariners death %'s are probably the worst of all.
Actually, Army Air Corps of any kind were probably the worst in terms of death. for AAC officers 22,022 of their total 46,769 casualties were deaths. And of the deaths, 21,915 were in combat (KIA, DOW, MIA-declared dead). Another 15,384 were captured, returned to military control, so just 9,363 were WIA but did not die.
Also as far as tanks losses, Now that you have clarified your post on the date issue. It may be that Tucker could be including light tank losses too and a few other models, not M4's( Stuarts,M24's, M26's etc). He may even be including turreted TD's(M10's, M18's,M36's). Of course that goes off into the "Is it a Tank/SP debate?". But light tanks are tanks.
Chris
Since my post failed to make it I can't address this fully right now (data is at home), but you made a good call. The total 'tanks' written off were 6,276 IIRC. I'll post the breakdown later.
by Pips on 27 Jun 2007 23:01 
I get these alot.