Help to Id. US artillery

[Sturm78]

Thank you, ROLAND1369

Regards Sturm78

[ROLAND1369]

As always, glad to help. I did some research, and came up with additional information. The picture was taken at Battery Peck, Fort Hancock, harbor defenses of New York. During the early part of WW II these guns were transferred to Battery Gunnison which had been modified from a 6 inch M1903 disappearing gun Battery. It was also on Fort Hancock.

[Sturm78]

Thank you, again, ROLAND1369

Sturm78,

[karlik]

Hi!
Id please this US 75-mm mountain gun

1442920509_75mm-mountain-gun.jpg (25.64 KiB) Viewed 1955 times

[Carl Schwamberger]

This image is difficult to pull details out of. Enlarging quickly creates a badly grained image. Can you post something larger & clearer?

Also do you have the context for the photo?

My first thought was a 75mm Cannon M1A1 on carriage M3A3. but its not the carriage M3A1. Its not even the box trail with holes M1 or M8 used on many of the 75mm pack howitzers. This sort of trail & pivoting wheel system was seen on a few test or T models in the 1920s & later. In the 1920s there were a lot of limited production & one off models of 75mm guns made. AA, FA, light & a "Universal" gun or two, all of which were various T models.

A alternate is this was something cobbled together by or for the Brits out of US components.

[karlik]

Hi!
Here the manual for this gun "75mm Mountain Gun National Forge & Ordnance Co. 1939"
http://dfiles.ru/files/o8izfglnl
But I still could not understand what kind of gun???
Best regards!

[ChristopherPerrien]

Seems insanely tall, for a production gun. Looks like its was tacked on to another carriage. Perhaps it was one of the 75's that lost out to the pack howitzer, or a late war/postwar idea for one.

OK, I was looking when you posted.

I did find an interesting forum while I digging , so it is not lost time.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... +1898-1941

[Carl Schwamberger]

Could not look at the manual. for some reason my CC vendor is blocking that site (???) Some google time hints the National Forge & Ordnance Co. was building test models for the US Army.

[karlik]

Another link to the manual.
http://uploaded.net/file/smuwxspo

[Carl Schwamberger]

Thanks for the second link

[ROLAND1369]

National Forge and Ordnance was a private firm which produced a limited number of weapons for private sales to foreign governments. these ranged from licence built foreign designs to designs by private individuals who after testing by us army ordinance and rejected were with US government approval released for production forapproved foreign countries. The buildup of armament purchase by the Europeon powers prior to WW II as well as the US buildup made standard US weapons unavailable and created a sellers market for us private weapons dealers in the 1939-41 period. An example of this was the production and sale to the Netherlands East Indies of 37 MM at guns chambered for but totally different from the standard Us M3 37 AT gun as well as a 37 MM AA gun in both fixed and mobile versions by this firm. Further examples of this feeding frenzy was the production and sale of the Johnson Automatic Rifle which had lost out to the M 1 Garand rifle and but was allowed to be produced also for the Dutch. A further example was the Marmon Harrington series of light tanks which was also produced for the dutch. The highlight of this absurdity was reached when large numbers of deactivated german WW I Maxim 08 and French 8 MM M 1914 which had resided on courthouse lawns and VFWs since the end of WWI were purchased, reactivated, and rechambered for 7.62 Russian Rimmed Ammo, of which there was a large surplus left over from a cancelled Finnish contract, with the intention of sale to the Dutch Purchasing Commission. Fortunately for the dutch the Us government confiscated the lot at the beginning of WW II paid scrap prices for them and melted them down. The company is still in busness making forgings and produced the casing for several of the US penetrator bombs. I suspect that this is a one-of that nobody bought. To my mind it has French design characteristics as noted by the attachment of the wheels to the trails as opposed to a solid axel, note the tow in with the trails extended.

[Carl Schwamberger]

.... To my mind it has French design characteristics as noted by the attachment of the wheels to the trails as opposed to a solid axel, note the tow in with the trails extended.

I've seen the trail-axel combination in a very small number of photos in the US FA Journal of the 1920s. Cant think of a single prewar production design it was used with. Post war there was a 90mm AT gun that saw limited production. Have photos of a example sitting in front of a veterans club in SW Pennsylvania.

[ROLAND1369]

Hardly suprising, as the postwar US standard artillery consisted of French designed weapons and fire control and firing techniques. it would be strange if new designs did not follow french design techniques untill the pre WW II new designs. In addition to the bowed wheels used by French designs several of the mountain and infantry guns had the same high mounted ordinance, A departure from contemporary practice at the time in the national forge gun is the use of a vertical sliding block breech mechanism. This feature was found at the time almost ecclusivly in tank, naval, and aa guns while horizontal brech blocks were favored for field artillery non bag charge weapons.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Hardly suprising, as the postwar US standard artillery consisted of French designed weapons and fire control and firing techniques. it would be strange if new designs did not follow french design techniques untill the pre WW II new designs. ...

Post war budgets about guaranteed the leftover French ordnance would be used. If you did through the 1920s volumes of the Field Artillery Journal bits about design work based on pre 1917 US designs, and some German turn up. There were at least two items describing a proposal and tests aimed at adding 460 German made FH16 to the US Division artillery. That was dropped 1924 or 1925 in favor of the US 105mm howitzer design M1, which was not put into production for another 10+ years as the M2. Mid 1920s there is a long article about a universal gun on a pedistal carriage, for field artillery, anti aircraft, and anti tank use. I seem to recall a 3" or 76.2mm cannon was tested for that one, but would have to check to be sure. Refrences to ballistic testing give me the impression there was a enormous amount of that going on. There were a couple in depth articles examining the French fire control systems and questioning about where to go from those methods.

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

I found in the net this rare image of this 356mm 14in M1919 L45 gun on Railway mount model E

I am not sure if only one gun manufactured or more

On the other hand, I am searching for wartime images of 305mm 12in US railway guns...Somebody ??

Thanks in advance
Sturm78