MacArthur -why the hate?

[Delta Tank]

OpanaPointer,

OpanaPointer wrote:

Letter to General Marshall, dated July 27, 1945. One sentence out of a much longer document.
And yes, Truman told Bess that he had achieved his one goal at Potsdam, getting Stalin to agree to enter the Pacific war as promised.

That can't be correct. The Soviets agreed to enter the war against Japan 90 days after Germany's surrender and they did, so that agreement was done prior to the Potsdam Conference which was held 17 July to 2 August. The Soviets entered the war against Japan on 9 August 1945. So, in this case MacArthur agreed with the President of the United States, so where's the "Beef"?

And apparently the Russians and the Japanese are still at war to this day.

Mike

[Delta Tank]

Sid,

Sid wrote:

While Brooke necessarily worked closely with Eisenhower for several years, when was he ever similarly exposed to MacArthur? One has to wonder if they ever met at all. If they did, it would have been very fleeting.

I will go out on a limb here and state that no one on this thread ever met Ike, Marshall, MacArthur, or anyone else responsible for strategy in World War II and here we are judging them. So, one does not need to meet someone to judge their actions, just able to read and comprehend the situation and the actions taken.

Mike

[Delta Tank]

Nickdfresh

Nickdfresh wrote:

The fact that he had a tenancy to take credit for others' work, in one case allegedly ripping the plans out of a Marine officers hands in fornt of reporters and proclaiming them his own when he had virtually no input in drawing them up. I recall hearing this, but would appreciate if anyone has more info. Also, Mac was dependent on a corp of very competent underlings that probably could have executed his job better than he did as the overlord-in-chief. One of which was "Mac's Fireman": General Robert Eichenberger, probably America's closest answer to Slim. That's not to say that Mac wasn't a skillful "manager" sort, but I think he stood on the shoulders of others that were probably much better actual soldiers...

I smell a myth here. Documentation that a marine officer had his plans ripped out of his hands by MacArthur in front of reporters. This should be easy for someone to find since it was done in front of reporters, I have never heard of it and I believe this is a myth started by people who hate MacArthur, just like the myth that he forbade Kinkaid to communicate with Halsey at Leyte Gulf, which has been swallowed by "historians" doing original research and evaluating sources and then making a decision on what really happened.

Mike

[Delta Tank]

Post deleted

Mike

[rcocean]

In Roosevelt's Centurions" P 537:Brooke wrote in his diary ; "MacArthur outshone Marshall and the other American and British generals, including Montgomery ."

Brooke respected MacArthur because he'd been in combat in WW1 and WW2 and was successful in fighting the Japanese in WW2. He thought Ike was a great "coordinator" but completely useless as a Ground commander. He got Alexander appointed as Ground commander in Tunisia so that Ike could stay in Algiers and "coordinate and not command troops. After that he was constantly trying to get someone to take Ike's place as ground commander in the ETO.

As for Marshall. Brooke thought he was a great "organizer" but absolutely hopeless as a Strategist. Its also obvious, although not directly stated in his diaries, that he considered Marshall a little slow on the uptake. I sure one of things he liked about MacArthur is that he had a brilliant mind.

[rcocean]

I smell a myth here. Documentation that a marine officer had his plans ripped out of his hands by MacArthur in front of reporters. This should be easy for someone to find since it was done in front of reporters, I have never heard of it and I believe this is a myth started by people who hate MacArthur, just like the myth that he forbade Kinkaid to communicate with Halsey at Leyte Gulf, which has been swallowed by "historians" doing original research and evaluating sources and then making a decision on what really happened.
Mike

I agree. I've read everything about MacArthur and I've never heard this lie before. If he'd done such a thing, it's impossible to believe that some reporter would not have written about it. People need to remember that after Truman fired MacArthur in 1951, liberals were looking for every piece of ammunition they could throw at Big Mac. A whole slew of Anti-MacArthur books and articles came out in the 1951-1954 time period. And since 1980 or so, the historians have declared open season on MacArthur.

The fact that the commentator can't even give a date or a place for "what he heard" shows its bogus.

[rcocean]

Demanded?? How about a source for that one. IIRC the agreement that the Soviets would attack Japan was made without MacArthurs participation.
Mike

I looked at the correspondence of MacArthur for July 1945 and found nothing in it that "Demands" a Russian attack on Northern japan. How could MacArthur have "demanded" an attack on Northern Japan when Russia wasn't even in the war and hadn't even attacked Manchuria yet?

[rcocean]

Its humorous that this thread has come back to life with the same MacArthur haters making the same old emotion laden, fact free charges they were making 7 years ago.

I guess that's one way to win an argument, just keep making the same false charges over and over again, and pretty soon everyone gets bored and quits. Stupidity can always win if its relentless enough.

[OpanaPointer]

OpanaPointer,

OpanaPointer wrote:

Letter to General Marshall, dated July 27, 1945. One sentence out of a much longer document.
And yes, Truman told Bess that he had achieved his one goal at Potsdam, getting Stalin to agree to enter the Pacific war as promised.

That can't be correct. The Soviets agreed to enter the war against Japan 90 days after Germany's surrender and they did, so that agreement was done prior to the Potsdam Conference which was held 17 July to 2 August. The Soviets entered the war against Japan on 9 August 1945. So, in this case MacArthur agreed with the President of the United States, so where's the "Beef"?

And apparently the Russians and the Japanese are still at war to this day.

Mike

I'm sorry, but what can't be correct? I can't parse that out of your post.

[OpanaPointer]

Demanded?? How about a source for that one. IIRC the agreement that the Soviets would attack Japan was made without MacArthurs participation.
Mike

I looked at the correspondence of MacArthur for July 1945 and found nothing in it that "Demands" a Russian attack on Northern japan. How could MacArthur have "demanded" an attack on Northern Japan when Russia wasn't even in the war and hadn't even attacked Manchuria yet?

I presume you know the date of the proposed Kyushu invasion?

[OpanaPointer]

Its humorous that this thread has come back to life with the same MacArthur haters making the same old emotion laden, fact free charges they were making 7 years ago.

I guess that's one way to win an argument, just keep making the same false charges over and over again, and pretty soon everyone gets bored and quits. Stupidity can always win if its relentless enough.

Attacking the poster instead of the posts. Nothing new there either.

[Delta Tank]

OpanaPointer,

OpanaPointer wrote:

Letter to General Marshall, dated July 27, 1945. One sentence out of a much longer document.
And yes, Truman told Bess that he had achieved his one goal at Potsdam, getting Stalin to agree to enter the Pacific war as promised.

That can't be correct. The Soviets agreed to enter the war against Japan 90 days after Germany's surrender and they did, so that agreement was done prior to the Potsdam Conference which was held 17 July to 2 August. The Soviets entered the war against Japan on 9 August 1945. So, in this case MacArthur agreed with the President of the United States, so where's the "Beef"?

And apparently the Russians and the Japanese are still at war to this day.

Mike

I'm sorry, but what can't be correct? I can't parse that out of your post.

The USSR agreed to enter the war against the Empire of Japan during the Yalta Conference which was held 4 to 11 February 1945. From wiki:

Stalin agreed to enter the fight against the Empire of Japan "in two or three months after Germany has surrendered and the war in Europe is terminated," and that as a result, the Soviets would take possession of Southern Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands, the port of Darien would be internationalized, and the Soviet lease of Port Arthur would be restored, among other concessions.

I hope this will make it clear what you were incorrect about. And if Truman stated what you posted obviously he was mistaken.

Mike

[OpanaPointer]

We weren't certain The Great Stalin would keep his promises. That was Truman's point to Bess.

[antfreire]

But some of them accepted the subordination of their cultures to Communism. Others have/had active groups trying to do the same.

They sure did, after fifty millions deaths.

[OpanaPointer]

But some of them accepted the subordination of their cultures to Communism. Others have/had active groups trying to do the same.

They sure did, after fifty millions deaths.

North Vietnam? North Korea?