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Schpam wrote:I was wondering if those with some knowledge of the subject could take a look at this table and help me understand: http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/U/n/Unit_Of_Fire.htm

takata_1940 wrote:Schpam wrote:I was wondering if those with some knowledge of the subject could take a look at this table and help me understand: http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/U/n/Unit_Of_Fire.htm
Hi,
I'm going to contradict almost everybody in this thread... only RichTO90 cited the manual.
1. Unit of fire (UF) is a space/load unit computed arbitrary and it is not related to any "daily expenditure". The daily expenditure showed by this table was computed at very high echelon (Army, Army Group/Theater) during long period of time. It would be very different at Platoon's level during one single week of combat. Then, it is not possible to make absolute statistics on it. This will make sense only at the highest logistical level.
2. This table is certainly confusing the dotation carried per weapon (excluding higher echelons ammo) and UFs. UFs are usually expressed in much higher numbers: i.e. 575,625 rounds of 30. Rifle (with packaging), which will fill a 10 metric tons wagon (or whatever space). It is computed for each caliber and it will be used on purpose of replenishment computations.
3. US "unit of fire" were settled before the war on the basis of WWI experience and derivated for new weapons. Actual WWII consumptions were vastly different and varied also from one theater to another. Then, real consumption of UF would be monitored by HQs and new tables for planning revised accordingly, saying that x-sized unit will need y-UF of z-ammo per day/week/month. Then, this base would be multiplied by another factor considering the consumption rate due to different combat posture forecasted during planning (exploitation, heavy fighting, etc.).
S~
Olivier

A credit is a definite quantity of supply placed at the disposal of the commander of an organization for a prescribed period of time... In establishing credits for ammunition, the numbers of rounds by caliber and type are prescribed as available for a definite period of time. In theaters of operation where a unit of fire has been adopted that establishes a definite number of rounds per weapon by type of ammunition, the unit of fire is used to express the amount of credit allocated.(FM 101-10 para 107, and also mentioned in FM 9-6).
Depots and ASP's. There are two main types of ammunition supply installations, namely, depots and ASP's (ammunition supply points). Either may be defined as an organized locality for receiving, classifying, storing and issuing ammunition. The distinction between them is that the bulk of ammunition handled by ASP's is issued directly to combat units, while most of the ammunition issued by depots is to other ammunition supply installations. (FM 9-6 para 50.a.).
Each ASP must have a sufficient quantity of each type of ammunition to insure that the troops it supplies can replace each day's expenditure before beginning the following day's operation. (FM 9-6 para 54).

jwsleser wrote:Not a problem with you questioning what I posted. Of course, I certainly disagree with your understanding of the workings of ammunition supply. Let me provide a detailed discussion using the period manuals.
jwsleser wrote:The purpose of unit of fire (UF) and Day of Supply (DS) is to make the process of requesting and receiving ammunition as simple as possible. The unit of request can be based on shipping (a pallet of ammunition/a standard weight) or consumption.
jwsleser wrote:A quick look at the tables in FM 101-10 (15 June 1941) shows that standardized shipping wasn’t the common factor used. Additionally, UF and DS are established by theater, not by a central transportation/shipping authorized (FM 9-6 para 11 and FM 101-10 para 107). It is hard to find a useful purpose in a “standard space/load computed arbitrarily” value if no one is using the same value.
jwsleser wrote:I will introduce a new term, credit.
A credit is a definite quantity of supply placed at the disposal of the commander of an organization for a prescribed period of time... In establishing credits for ammunition, the numbers of rounds by caliber and type are prescribed as available for a definite period of time. In theaters of operation where a unit of fire has been adopted that establishes a definite number of rounds per weapon by type of ammunition, the unit of fire is used to express the amount of credit allocated.(FM 101-10 para 107, and also mentioned in FM 9-6).
jwsleser wrote:A credit can be either a UF or a DS, and is designated by the theater. So here we have a unit of time associated with a quantity of ammunition and both UF and DS must have a quantity and a time.
jwsleser wrote:So UF traditionally is a day of consumption. Because nothing is certain in war, manuals allow one to modify if there is sufficient reason to do so. This is why a period of time or quantity is not specified, but left to the commander.




jwsleser wrote:I need to clarify where our disagreement lies. My understanding of your position is that the number of rounds in a UF was selected/established based on shipping requirements (cube/weight), not consumption over time. If my understanding is incorrect, please tell me what the number of rounds in a UF is based on?

Oliver: It was established arbitrarily: why say 150 rounds per gun and why not 300 or 500?



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