Navy aircraft at Oahu on 7 December 1941?

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kgbudge
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Navy aircraft at Oahu on 7 December 1941?

#1

Post by kgbudge » 22 Jul 2012, 06:06

I've been reading Alan D. Zimm's interesting operational analysis critique of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. I'm puzzled, though, by his statement that there were 301 U.S. Navy aircraft on Oahu on 7 December 1941, including 52 in storage and 47 under repair or being overhauled. My own count is that there could not be many more than 150 Navy/Marine aircraft on the island that day. Anyone know where Zimm might have got his numbers? His numbers for the AAC, 231 aircraft, does seem to be about right.

And while I'm asking: Zimm also claims the Aircraft Information Center was not in operation that morning because Short and Kimmel had decided they could not spare any officers for it until war actually broke out. Can anyone confirm that?

Thanks.

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Re: Navy aircraft at Oahu on 7 December 1941?

#2

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 23 Jul 2012, 02:26

kgbudge wrote: And while I'm asking: Zimm also claims the Aircraft Information Center was not in operation that morning because Short and Kimmel had decided they could not spare any officers for it until war actually broke out. Can anyone confirm that?
Can't cite chapter & verse, but here is from my dim memory. The US Army/Army Air Force did not shove random groups of soldiers off to sundry stations to add numbers for new units. (It only seemed that way) They were allocated by a system of filling the TO according to the rank/training requirements of the spaces on the TO chart. Some times this assignment or allocation guide is refered to as the 'Troop Basis' tho that was not the same as the TO for specific units. The Troop Basis was a broader planning document or system for establishing personnel requirement across the entire Army/Air Force.

Anyway, as I understand it in late 1941 there was either no TO published for a Aircraft Information Center, or no specific personnel allocated to filling such a TO, and there was no allocation sent to Hawaii for filling a 'Provisionsal' AIC. To stand up such a HQ cell Short could rob other HQ or combat leadership positions of suitable men. It appears he defered that action, or possiblly took a half measure of assigning staff officers to the AIC as a 'additional duty'.

I also remember the future requirement to stand up a AIC had only been handed down to Short a couple months earlier, the equipment requirements had not been completely worked out, and a month or so was not enough time to establish doctrine.command links/or any sort of training.

At Clark Field near Manilia there was a embryonic AIC. It failed as there had been to little time to train in communicating with the air defense squadrons. In the general confusion and frantic efforts of 8 Dec. at the USAAF stations on Luzon the nominal AIC was unable to communicate effectively with the air defense squadrons, particualry when the main Japanese air strike on Luzon came in late morning.


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Takao
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Re: Navy aircraft at Oahu on 7 December 1941?

#3

Post by Takao » 23 Jul 2012, 02:42

Been awhile since I read this book, but here are some figures to start with
http://www.ww2pacific.com/aaf41.html
http://www.navweaps.com/index_oob/OOB_W ... Harbor.htm
You can find the (I'm guessing "official") US Navy figures in volume/part 12 of the PHA on pages 351-352. It is Item 12 - Table of Navy and Marine Corps Aircraft in Hawaiian Area December 7, 1941, found in Exhibit # 6, Navy Exhibit. The total number of USN aircraft according to this table is 185(although a few may have been counted twice as being used for both utility & patrol aircraft), also it includes aircraft based at Johnston Island, Maui, and Midway, but does not include shipboard-based scouting floatplanes nor aircraft aboard USS Enterprise.
Part 12 can be downloaded from here: http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/congress/

As such, I have no idea how Zimm comes up with a total of 301, since this number is apparently not sourced.
So we have the PHA total of 185, navweaps total(minus the Wake Island aircraft) of 196, and the ww2pacific total(minus wake island aircraft) of 198. To even come close to 301, you would have to add in the aircraft of the USS Enterprise and the scout planes of the battleships & cruisers.

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Re: Navy aircraft at Oahu on 7 December 1941?

#4

Post by kgbudge » 23 Jul 2012, 03:10

My guess was that he included the carrier aircraft, but wondered if anyone knew better. Thanks.

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Re: Navy aircraft at Oahu on 7 December 1941?

#5

Post by Takao » 23 Jul 2012, 03:50

WRT Zimm's claim that the AIC was not in operation due to a personnel shortage, that is correct and was brought out in, IIRC, more than a few of the investigations into Pearl Harbor.

To add to Carl's statement, it was not just the Army that was being "stingy" with their officers, but the Navy was too. Commander William E. G. Taylor, a naval reserve officer whom had been detailed to assist the Army in setting up the AIC, had made several official requests for naval officers to act as liaisons between the Army and Navy controllers, and he was turned down every time. Taylor also thought that the radar stations should have been in constant operation, rather than their daily three hours of operation.

Amazingly enough, immediately following the attack on Pearl Harbor, personell were "suddenly found" to fully staff the AIC...

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Re: Navy aircraft at Oahu on 7 December 1941?

#6

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 23 Jul 2012, 13:01

Takao wrote:
Amazingly enough, immediately following the attack on Pearl Harbor, personell were "suddenly found" to fully staff the AIC...
'The threat of imminent execution concentrates the mind wonderfully."

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Re: Navy aircraft at Oahu on 7 December 1941?

#7

Post by OpanaPointer » 11 May 2014, 14:46

Just finished reading this book, so I'll tack on to this thread rather start a new one.

First, this is written from the viewpoint of a warmaker, not a historian looking for political motivations. "Why" the attack occurred is not addressed. Zimm was a naval officer and uses the Naval War College wargaming rules for much of his analysis. He explains why he chose certain results over others consistently.

For the casual reader I would suggest you read the last three chapters first, especially the over three pages of bullet points listing problems with the planning and execution of the attack, and with the defenders as well.

The bottom line for the attack, in Zimm's opinion, is that "Yamamoto should have had his head handed to him on a platter", meaning the attack was poorly planned and badly executed. Zimm is especially hard on Fuchida and Genda.

Regarding the AIC: Army Public Works was slow in getting the facilities completed, "milking the job" as they say, and this delaying activation. Strangely, to me, is the complaint that Kimmel didn't provide enough officers to work the facility. This was an Army installation and they were tasked with running it. The USN would have liaison officers there and the Navy would have to learn to cooperate with the Army in allocation of resources, but Kimmel could pack up and take the fleet elsewhere with little notice to the Army. There weren't enough officers to go around as it was, so giving some of a new and as yet unproven (to the folks on Hawaii anyway) operation just wasn't going to happen. In fact the USN was borrowing personnel from the Army to learn how to use radar effectively. A former Eagle Squadron commander was with Halsey when he sailed for Wake, a man returned from the RAF to teach the USAAF how to integrate radar into the overall system. (Taylor's testimony in the Hearings is an informative read. Link provided on request.)
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