USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

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OpanaPointer
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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#16

Post by OpanaPointer » 01 Feb 2016, 14:59

What I meant, of course, was that there was no source for the quote as put forward, because it had been quote mined. Obvious agenda was obvious.
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rcocean
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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#17

Post by rcocean » 02 Feb 2016, 04:24

The quote is from the New York Times in June 1941 - after the invasion of the USSR began.

And you're getting it all wrong. Truman is trying to justify giving aid to the USSR. He paints the Nazi's and the Reds as moral equivalents and says we should give aid to either side that's winning knowing full well that (i) the Germans were going to be winning for the forseeable future and (ii) the USA was never going to give aid to Hitler.

Politicians do this all the time. They say they're in favor of A and B. But "B" will only occur far in the future or not at all. So in effect, they are just arguing for "A".


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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#18

Post by OpanaPointer » 02 Feb 2016, 08:23

Do you have the full text of the quote?
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Sid Guttridge
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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#19

Post by Sid Guttridge » 02 Feb 2016, 13:00

Hi Guys,

Clearly, when Truman said "Let's help the Russians when the Germans are winning and the Germans when the Russians are winning. So each may kill off as many as possible of the other", he was in no position to make policy, but he was prescient.

For isn't that pretty much what happened?

While the Liberal Democracies were still getting their collective military act together and nibbling at the edges of Fortress Europe prior to mid 1944, the two main totalitarian powers tore each other to shreds. One was ultimately destroyed and the other suffered grievous losses. Truly, they did "kill off as many as possible of the other".

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#20

Post by OpanaPointer » 02 Feb 2016, 13:15

"If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don't want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances. Neither of them thinks anything of their pledged word."
As quoted in The New York Times (24 June 1941); also in TIME magazine (2 July 1951))
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steevh
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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#21

Post by steevh » 04 Apr 2017, 13:56

Delta Tank wrote:Lagami,

Here is the quote;
"Let's help the Russians when the Germans are winning and the Germans when the Russians are winning. So each may kill off as many as possible of the other."
Harry Truman in U.S. Senate on June 5, 1941
This is very funny, because this is exactly what Stalin thought the Western democracies were up to.

And guess who he had to end up dealing with in 1945, ushering in the start of the Cold War?

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#22

Post by Sid Guttridge » 04 Apr 2017, 16:47

Hi Guys,

To repeat my earlier point, Truman was not Vice-President in 1941 and not in a position to make policy. He is stating a personal view, not one on behalf of the administration.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#23

Post by OpanaPointer » 12 Apr 2017, 18:14

Sid Guttridge wrote:Hi Guys,

To repeat my earlier point, Truman was not Vice-President in 1941 and not in a position to make policy. He is stating a personal view, not one on behalf of the administration.

Cheers,

Sid.
The Truman quote did reflect the opinions of a significant percentage of Americans, but not a majority. Careful use of the words "aggressor nations" helped sort out the enemy after a time.
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LineDoggie
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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#24

Post by LineDoggie » 18 Apr 2017, 18:52

Lagami wrote:
Delta Tank wrote:Lagami,

Here is the quote;
"Let's help the Russians when the Germans are winning and the Germans when the Russians are winning. So each may kill off as many as possible of the other."
Harry Truman in U.S. Senate on June 5, 1941
This quote is one of the weirdest quotes I have ever read. This does just sound extremely grotesque and I can't find any plausible reason for why he said that.
This does just make him look like he didn't give a damn about who they should work together with and instead just stick with the stronger one. Really weird. Or am I missing something? Does it make more sense if one hears his full speech and not just this one sentence out of it.
Considering to that point of Barbarossa opening, that the Soviets and Nazis were treaty Allies who both stabbed Poland in the back by invading and the millions both regimes murdered, Truman was being charitable
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#25

Post by OpanaPointer » 18 Apr 2017, 19:33

LineDoggie wrote:
Lagami wrote:
Delta Tank wrote:Lagami,

Here is the quote;
"Let's help the Russians when the Germans are winning and the Germans when the Russians are winning. So each may kill off as many as possible of the other."
Harry Truman in U.S. Senate on June 5, 1941
This quote is one of the weirdest quotes I have ever read. This does just sound extremely grotesque and I can't find any plausible reason for why he said that.
This does just make him look like he didn't give a damn about who they should work together with and instead just stick with the stronger one. Really weird. Or am I missing something? Does it make more sense if one hears his full speech and not just this one sentence out of it.
Considering to that point of Barbarossa opening, that the Soviets and Nazis were treaty Allies who both stabbed Poland in the back by invading and the millions both regimes murdered, Truman was being charitable
And I think that's the point of his hyperbole. We think so often of the USSR being an ally that we forget people considered them equally bad before Barbarossa. As that comment is just two weeks before the invasion many people would have been nodding.
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