Proposed US Military equipment for Greece 1941

[Andy H]

Hi

On March 7th 1941, FDR signed a directive that stated that Greece was also essential to American security and authorized the immediate transfer of 50 75mm guns and 150,000 shells plus other military equipment. None of these supplies reached Greece before the German invasion.

Does anyone now just what the 'other' military equipment mentioned below actually was?

Regards

Andy H

[xristar]

Are you interested to know what Greece wanted from the USA or precicely what was covered by the lend-lease?
If it is the first, then Greece from the start of the war examined the possibilty to procure from the US pretty much any type of weapons and ammunition needed. Although various quantities were indeed shipped (such as 81mm mortar ammuntion, that existed in US stocks and were purchased by Greece), none arrived.
If it is the latter, all I see is 50 modern + 24 old 75mm guns, which are specifically mentioned and actually loaded on ships for Greece, but as you say, did not arrive in time. There is also a mention that the Greek representative in Washington reported that as soon as the lend lease began the US would supply 250 81mm mortars every three months. There are also many references on ammunition, although I don't know their relationship with the lendlease programme. Apparently, and until the leand-lease law was voted, purchases from existing US stocks were hard.

[Alexander Taper-Bore]

Just out of curiosity, do you know the types of "modern" and "old" 75mm guns?
Thanks

[xristar]

Just out of curiosity, do you know the types of "modern" and "old" 75mm guns?
Thanks

To be honest no. At least one of the types, probably the "old", was the M1917. See relevant post here

[Richard Anderson]

Just out of curiosity, do you know the types of "modern" and "old" 75mm guns?
Thanks

To be honest no. At least one of the types, probably the "old", was the M1917. See relevant post here

It's actually kind of hard to say exactly what would have been classified as "modern" or "old" since it had nothing to do with the age of the guns, virtually all of them had been manufactured 1917-1918.

Fundamentally though, the "modern" guns were those that had been modernized and were adaptable to motorized towing. The most modern was the 75mm M1917A1 Gun on Carriage M2, M2A1, or M2A2. Those carriages were all manufactured c.1935-1940 and were modern, split-trail, designed for high-speed mechanical towing with pneumatic tires and brakes. Except I doubt any were ever Lend-Leased, since there weren't enough to equip American units.

Most likely the "modern" pieces were M1897A3 Guns (French-produced M1897 brought up to modern standard with all modifications to date) on Carriage M1897M1A2 or M1897A4 (adapted for high-speed towing). The "old" pieces were likely M1917 or M1897 (the original unmodified French-produced guns) on the original carriages.

[Alexander Taper-Bore]

Thanks and the 24 "old" guns would have been the 75mm M1916, right?

[Richard Anderson]

Thanks and the 24 "old" guns would have been the 75mm M1916, right?

Doubtful. There were few of those left. Most had been converted to use as subcaliber guns for Coast Artillery, of the few left on the original carriages (the few that still held together) were IIRC the Philippine Division and the rest were sold to the British. The carriage was too lightly constructed and tended to fall apart if towed too quickly...it was that lesson which led to the M2 Carriage and then the carriage for the M2 105mm Howitzer.

[Alexander Taper-Bore]

Well, the 75mm M1916 was sent to various theatres of war: "Between 75 and 125 U.S. M1916 (horse-drawn) and M1916A1 (high-speeded) 75mm field guns were intended for the Balkans, but were not received there. Instead, a good many of them ended up in British hands in Crete and the Middle East. Although not a simple tale, a number of high-speed M1916A1 75mm guns went east, and some of them armed in part Australian antitank formations in Malaya and Singapore." From: http://www.network54.com/Forum/594514/m ... 1442463021

Jordan Arab Legion (there are pictures of these guns portee style on various vehicles) and Colombia were other destinations, Jordan probably through British in Egypt.

[Richard Anderson]

Well, the 75mm M1916 was sent to various theatres of war: "Between 75 and 125 U.S. M1916 (horse-drawn) and M1916A1 (high-speeded) 75mm field guns were intended for the Balkans, but were not received there. Instead, a good many of them ended up in British hands in Crete and the Middle East. Although not a simple tale, a number of high-speed M1916A1 75mm guns went east, and some of them armed in part Australian antitank formations in Malaya and Singapore." From: http://www.network54.com/Forum/594514/m ... 1442463021

Jordan Arab Legion (there are pictures of these guns portee style on various vehicles) and Colombia were other destinations, Jordan probably through British in Egypt.

Yes...but. Please see the other thread on the US 75mm M1917, which relates to this. The actual situation is odd and hard to account for. In April 1940 only 320 75mm M1916 were counted in inventory by the War Department. Of those, we know 230 were eventually shipped as lend-Lease to Britain and other "minor countries", which leaves only 90 unaccounted for. It is possible those were offered for sale to Yugoslavia/Greece on a Cash and Carry basis, but it would not have been via Lend-Lease (at that time there was no Lend-Lease agreement with anyone other than Britain).

A further breakdown of Lend-Lease shows 50 75mm Guns went to Greece, 8 to Ethiopia, and 2 to other Latin American countries...which appears to account for the other 60 75mm M1916.

[Alexander Taper-Bore]

Thanks Richard!

[OldBill]

The US also held stocks of 155mm Howitzers, the M1918 based on the French Schneider 155.