US Officer in the ETO with experience from the PTO

[Mori]

Hello all,

What US generals fought the Germans after getting some first war experience in the Pacific? Why and how were they moved from PTO to ETO?

I don't know many cases, and probably I miss many:

Charles Corlett (Aleutians, Kwjalein, XIX Corps in NW Europe)

Joe L. Collins (29 ID in Guadalcanal, VII Corps in NW Europe)

Alexander Patch (XIV Corps in Guadalcanal, 7th Army in Provence and NW Europe)

Maurice Rose ? (3rd ID in NW Europe, did he do any time in the Pacific in 1942?)

Can you help populate this list?

[Kingfish]

Joe L. Collins (29 ID in Guadalcanal, VII Corps in NW Europe)

Probably a typo on your part, but it was the 25th that fought at Guadacanal
The 29th only saw action in the ETO

[Dwight Pruitt]

Hello all,


Maurice Rose ? (3rd ID in NW Europe, did he do any time in the Pacific in 1942?)

Maurice Rose did not serve in the Pacific. He was a member of 1st Armored Division in Tunisia and served as a Combat Command CO in 2nd Armored, and was later KIA as CO of 3rd Armored near Paderborn.

[LineDoggie]

Maurice Rose ? (3rd ID in NW Europe, did he do any time in the Pacific in 1942?)

Can you help populate this list?

Maurice Rose commanded 3rd ARMORED division not 3rd Infantry division

Col. Rose was Chief of Staff in 1st Armored division in North Africa
CCA commander in 2nd Armored Division as a Brigadier
Became 3AD commander in August 1944 and promoted Major General

[Dwight Pruitt]

You could add the commander of the 86th Division, Maj. Gen Harris Melasky, who commanded the division in action in the ETO and then when it was redeployed to the Philippines in August 1945. It didn't see any appreciable action there, having landed after the Japanese surrendered. IIRC it took some casualties in 1946 when it clashed with Japanese hold outs on Lubang.

Also, Robert T. Frederick commanded the First Special Service Force in the Aleutians, Italy, France, and ended up commanding the 45th Division after commanding the First Allied Airborne Task Force.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Hello all,

What US generals fought the Germans after getting some first war experience in the Pacific? Why and how were they moved from PTO to ETO?

I don't know many cases, and probably I miss many:

Charles Corlett (Aleutians, Kwjalein, XIX Corps in NW Europe)...........................Not sure. Possiblly his promotion made him redundant as there was not much need for corps commanders in the Central Pacific.

Joe L. Collins (29 ID in Guadalcanal, VII Corps in NW Europe)............................Invalided back to the US for Malaria. After near a year of convalecence & training duties in the US he persuaded folks that he could serve in the temperate climate of Europe

Alexander Patch (XIV Corps in Guadalcanal, 7th Army in Provence and NW Europe)...One version is MacArthur did not want him around.

[Mori]

Joe L. Collins (29 ID in Guadalcanal, VII Corps in NW Europe)

Probably a typo on your part, but it was the 25th that fought at Guadacanal
The 29th only saw action in the ETO

Oops, typo it was. Same for 3rd ID instead of 3rd AD.

[Mori]

Alexander Patch (XIV Corps in Guadalcanal, 7th Army in Provence and NW Europe)...One version is MacArthur did not want him around.

That's pretty interesting because what I read so far is different.

After Patch's victory in Guadalcanal, his superior, general Harmon, was concerned that Patch was getting physically exhausted. Harmon wrote to Marshall a confidential letter suggesting to have Patch off duty in the USA for some time. The tone of the letter is caring, really. (It is similar to a letter from Monty to Brooke about giving some time off to Horrocks, at the end of 1944: in both letters, the CO is explicit he wants the individual back).

Marshall then wrote to Patch a letter explaining the need for experience officer to rotate from the front to training areas, and Patch moved back to the US in April 1943.

This is not contradictory with MacArthur not wanting Patch. But if you have specific sources about MaccArthur-Patch, I'm more than interested. Actually, I do not know of any single meeting when Patch and MacArthur ever had a direct exchange - which does mean I know all possible meetings -, and I do not know any direct, written communication between Patch and MacArthur.

But just being someone with direct access to Marshall could have been a reason for MacArthur to be hostile.

[Sheldrake]

There was also a transfer of knowledge about amphibious warfare techniques.
The occupation of the Alutiens was studied because it involved the dispatch of an Army force from US Ports.

Hanson baldwin wrote this for the USMCA magazine https://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/amp ... y-invasion

[The Ibis]

Jimmy Doolittle. After his famous raid on Tokyo, he was rejected by MacArthur in favor of George Kenney. Thereafter he went on to fight the Germans in North Africa, the Mediterranean and Europe.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Alexander Patch (XIV Corps in Guadalcanal, 7th Army in Provence and NW Europe)...One version is MacArthur did not want him around.

That's pretty interesting because what I read so far is different.

After Patch's victory in Guadalcanal, his superior, general Harmon, was concerned that Patch was getting physically exhausted. Harmon wrote to Marshall a confidential letter suggesting to have Patch off duty in the USA for some time. The tone of the letter is caring, really. (It is similar to a letter from Monty to Brooke about giving some time off to Horrocks, at the end of 1944: in both letters, the CO is explicit he wants the individual back).

Marshall then wrote to Patch a letter explaining the need for experience officer to rotate from the front to training areas, and Patch moved back to the US in April 1943.

This is not contradictory with MacArthur not wanting Patch. But if you have specific sources about MaccArthur-Patch, I'm more than interested. Actually, I do not know of any single meeting when Patch and MacArthur ever had a direct exchange - which does mean I know all possible meetings -, and I do not know any direct, written communication between Patch and MacArthur.

But just being someone with direct access to Marshall could have been a reason for MacArthur to be hostile.

That Patch was "exhausted" is probablly a understatement. Nearly every man that served on Guadalcanal departed with a debilitating tropical disease. Usually Malaria. A large portion of the veterans of the 1st & 2d Marine Division of Guadalcanal & many Army or Navy personnel that served there were sent back to the US as unfit for further service in the tropics.

One story I heard was Patchs name was on a list from Marshal in response to MacArthurs request for both corps and a army commanders. Mac passed over Patch & others & picking Echelberger & Kruger from the list, or that Patch was not named on a list of generals Mac requested. Another version is Mac was notified he would be taking over the components of XIV Corps when the Guadalcanal battle ended & Mac let Marshal know he did not want a number of senior officers of XIV Corps, including Patch.

Bottom line here is Mac specifically asked for others and ignored Patchs months of actual experience with XIV Corps. Precisely why is the question. Maybe he did not like Patch, maybe he knew he was unwell... ???

[Carl Schwamberger]

Jimmy Doolittle. After his famous raid on Tokyo, he was rejected by MacArthur in favor of George Kenney. Thereafter he went on to fight the Germans in North Africa, the Mediterranean and Europe.

A Colonel Halverson had a very similar experience. He commanded a early B24 Group, which was sent to China in early 1942. This Group is often called the HALPRO Group, HALPRO being a contraction of 'Halverson Project' The Group made it no further than India when the Burma route was closed to the Allies, leaving supply to Chinas airfields problematic for a indefinite period. A number of forward airfields were overrun by the Japanese that summer as well. Halversons Group was then sent on to the Middle East & eventually Egypt. From there it made a test raid on Ploesti, with IRCC twelve bombers in latter 1942.

[Mori]

That Patch was "exhausted" is probablly a understatement. Nearly every man that served on Guadalcanal departed with a debilitating tropical disease. Usually Malaria. A large portion of the veterans of the 1st & 2d Marine Division of Guadalcanal & many Army or Navy personnel that served there were sent back to the US as unfit for further service in the tropics.

I had not realized the tropical diseases had such lasting effect. from the litterature, it is clear a majority of men get sick and unfit for duty after a few weeks under such climate, but I did not know it would for ever put them out. In case you have a source for the "large portion" of veterans sent back to the US (ideally with a figure), I'm interested.

One story I heard was Patchs name was on a list from Marshal in response to MacArthurs request for both corps and a army commanders. Mac passed over Patch & others & picking Echelberger & Kruger from the list, or that Patch was not named on a list of generals Mac requested. Another version is Mac was notified he would be taking over the components of XIV Corps when the Guadalcanal battle ended & Mac let Marshal know he did not want a number of senior officers of XIV Corps, including Patch.

I'll check the Marshall Papers. They are easy to find.

[LineDoggie]

One story I heard was Patchs name was on a list from Marshal in response to MacArthurs request for both corps and a army commanders. Mac passed over Patch & others & picking Echelberger & Kruger from the list, or that Patch was not named on a list of generals Mac requested. Another version is Mac was notified he would be taking over the components of XIV Corps when the Guadalcanal battle ended & Mac let Marshal know he did not want a number of senior officers of XIV Corps, including Patch.

Bottom line here is Mac specifically asked for others and ignored Patchs months of actual experience with XIV Corps. Precisely why is the question. Maybe he did not like Patch, maybe he knew he was unwell... ???

Eichelberger was I Corps Commander while Patch hadnt even landed at Guadalcanal yet

[Mori]

@Carl and TheIbis: Thanks for pointing Doolittle and Halverson