British combat deaths?

[CJK1990]

A very basic question: how many U.K. military personnel died in World War II excluding those who died from non-combat related causes?

[Saxon Cross]

Wiki says 383,800 military deaths and 67,100 civilian deaths for a total of 450,900

compare this to the USA with 416,800 military deaths and 1,700 civilian deaths for a total of 418,500

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

[CJK1990]

Well, I saw that but it wasn't what I was looking for which is how many British soldiers died in combat.

[Saxon Cross]

Well, I saw that but it wasn't what I was looking for which is how many British soldiers died in combat.

Just soldiers, not sailors or aviators?

Including soldiers killed by German bombs in the Blitz?

[CJK1990]

All British military personnel who were killed in action, died of wounds, or died as POWs.

[CJK1990]

Out of 405,000 American deaths during WWII, 292,000 died in combat, I am looking for the equivalent British figure.

[Saxon Cross]

One site says 326,000

The same source says the US lost 295,000 which is so close to your US figures that one assumes they used the same accounting practices.

Source:
http://bss.sfsu.edu/tygiel/hist427/text ... sualty.htm

[CJK1990]

Well, I'd be hesitant to accept that without a firm source. Other casualties given there are clearly from all causes. 326,000 is also not plausible. According to wikipedia, a 1946 report showed 334,000 military and merchant personnel dead and missing from all causes. 31,000 were said to have died from natural causes, so the combat death toll has to be less than 300,000.

[Saxon Cross]

Well, I'd be hesitant to accept that without a firm source. Other casualties given there are clearly from all causes. 326,000 is also not plausible. According to wikipedia, a 1946 report showed 334,000 military and merchant personnel dead and missing from all causes. 31,000 were said to have died from natural causes, so the combat death toll has to be less than 300,000.

You want a firm source and then you quote Wackipedia to refute the other source!

For a firm source you will need MoD or government numbers; because these figures are often misreported.

[CJK1990]

I didn't realize that it would be this difficult to find out. It seems like something that should be readily available. I've seen other figures showing 271,000 but they don't state if they include non-combat deaths or merchant personnel.

[Gary Kennedy]

Actually finding concrete numbers on numerous aspects of WW2 can be quite difficult, as there is often someone willing to challenge the accuracy of any figures quoted.

From a very old WW2 'fact book' still on my bookshelves, there are totals of of 144,079 killed, 239,575 wounded and 152,076 PoW for the British Army during the conflict. The same book states 70,253 RAF personnel as killed or missing (but does not give figures for PoW). There is no entry for the RN unforunately. An online source gives 63,787 -

http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1003-Intro.htm#table

Another equally old book, a WW2 Chronology, gives British military casualties as 264,443 killed or died or wounds, 277,077 wounded and 213,919 captured or missing. Civilian deaths are shown as 92,673 (of which some 30,248 where Merchant Navy). Getting those figures to tally with others quoted in this relatively short thread is exceedingly difficult.

I agree it should be fairly straightforward to obtain reliable figures, but there are numerous complications. How many missing turned out to be killed in action or captivity, and how many were returned home is an obvious one. Accurate record keeping in the midst of war is another challenge. Lots of war diaries were lost, and with them details of the fates of men. Also the figures compiled run on postwar as men succumbed to wounds received some time earlier. On the basic point of combat versus accidental deaths or disease, I'm not sure there was such attention paid to each circumstance then as there would be now. I'd also bet there'd be conflicting figures for more recent and shorter wars.

For a brief idea of the complexity, just look at one review of Bomber Command casualties, not RAF overall -

http://www.rafinfo.org.uk/BCWW2Losses/B ... sstats.htm

Gary