sten MK3

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nordmann
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sten MK3

#1

Post by nordmann » 28 Nov 2006, 19:01

What are the differances (if any) betwenn the British sten mk3 and the Finnish sten?
Scott

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Harri
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#2

Post by Harri » 29 Nov 2006, 13:11

In the early 1950's Finns bougth about 75.000 second-hand Sten II and III models (with five clips each) of which the later one was much more common.

All Finnish Stens were first overhauled and repaired in Finland at Kuopio Weapons Depot. The work list was as follows:
- distorted shapes were straightened and noticed crackings were repaired (especially around the area where cartridge clips were set)
- sling links were added
- bouncer was reshaped to work better with Finnish cartridges
- cartridge chamber was lengthened
- weapons were "blued" in a high temperature process after which they looked like new and were less vulnerable to rust (their colour was very dark metallic blue)

These were also the differences between the original and Finnish Stens.

----

Stens were in common use until 1970's when a few accidents restricted their peace-time use. Still they were in occasional use until the early 1990's when they were replaced with new about 100.000 Chinese Norinco AK-47 Kalashnikov copies which too had to be reworked in Finland before they worked perfectly (after that I have not heard anything negative on them).


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#3

Post by Kocur » 30 Nov 2006, 08:11

Harri wrote: Still they were in occasional use until the early 1990's when they were replaced with new about 100.000 Chinese Norinco AK-47 Kalashnikov copies which too had to be reworked in Finland before they worked perfectly (after that I have not heard anything negative on them).
:shock:
Sorry for OT: Chinese Kalashnikovs in Finnish service!? If what I find so hard to belive is true, would that be caused by Valmets not produced in quantity enough to form 'resereve' of smallarms in case of mass mobilisation?

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Harri
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#4

Post by Harri » 30 Nov 2006, 09:19

Yes, it is true. Chinese rifles were very cheap. :lol:

Finland has have exceptionally large reserves between 1945 - 2000, around one million men at largest. The mobilized army would have been about 650.000 men during the war. AFAIK the number of Valmet/Sako produced RK 62 and its later variants is not more than around 300.000 pcs (perhaps someone knows the exact figure).

That's why also old m/31 SMGs (about 60.000 pcs), Stens (about 75.000 pcs), Kalashinikovs (about 130.000 originals and East German ones + 100.000 Chinese ones to replace Stens and some other models) and about 100.000 - 200.000 old long rifles (main model later m/39 only) were in our stocks. Stens, all old SMGs and old rifles have been removed from inventory since 1990's and the size of the mobilized army is now IIRC around 350.000 men.

Althoug in this Finnish presentation Chinese models are shown to be with a folding stock IIRC only 50% of them were of that model. At least the weapon I saw in an Army event some years ago was an original AK-47 looking Chinese model:
http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesit ... uipment=40

Finnish assault rifles are for combat units while soldiers in secondary and auxiliary duties have other weapons basically for self-defence.

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#5

Post by JTV » 30 Nov 2006, 12:10

Harri if you don't mind. Some corrections to terms:

- distorted shapes were straightened and any notisable crack were repaired (especially around magazine attachment)
- sling attachment loops were added
- extractor was reshaped to work better with Finnish cartridges
- cartridge chamber was lengthened...

What I remember refinishing these submachineguns left them with two or three new small holes (needed for the process) in receiver area. In addition they were stamped with the normal Finnish military property markings.

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#6

Post by JTV » 30 Nov 2006, 12:22

Harri wrote:Althoug in this Finnish presentation Chinese models are shown to be with a folding stock IIRC only 50% of them were of that model. At least the weapon I saw in an Army event some years ago was an original AK-47 looking Chinese model:
http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesit ... uipment=40

Finnish assault rifles are for combat units while soldiers in secondary and auxiliary duties have other weapons basically for self-defence.
Chinese know this version as Type 56-2. From the batch of 130,000 AKM-type assault rifles mentioned some 100,000 are East-German made (model 1972?). It might be worth mentioning that nowadays according Finnish doctrine as a standard all soldiers from basic average privates to brigadiers have assault rifle as personal weapon. Pistols are issued as personal weapons in extremely limited scale.

The exact number of Finnish made assault rifles is probably classified - at least I have not seen it anywhere. But the estimates run around 300,000+ (less than 400,000 though).

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Harri
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#7

Post by Harri » 30 Nov 2006, 13:14

JTV wrote:Harri if you don't mind. Some corrections to terms:
- distorted shapes were straightened and any notisable crack were repaired (especially around magazine attachment)
- sling attachment loops were added
- extractor was reshaped to work better with Finnish cartridges
- cartridge chamber was lengthened...
No, I don't. I tried to find the understandable terms but yours are of course better. I'm not the expert of such terms... not even in Finnish!
JTV wrote:What I remember refinishing these submachineguns left them with two or three new small holes (needed for the process) in receiver area. In addition they were stamped with the normal Finnish military property markings.
Of course. Weren't the barrels of Sten IIs also welded into the frame?
JTV wrote:Chinese know this version as Type 56-2. From the batch of 130,000 AKM-type assault rifles mentioned some 100,000 are East-German made (model 1972?).
That's what I think too. Do you know / remember how many of the Chinese rifles is with the folding stock? I think there were 50% with and 50% without. Basic model is Type 56 (or 56-1) and the semi-automatic civilian one Type 56-S.
JTV wrote:It might be worth mentioning that nowadays according Finnish doctrine as a standard all soldiers from basic average privates to brigadiers have assault rifle as personal weapon. Pistols are issued as personal weapons in extremely limited scale.
That's the basic rule although some may have also SMGs.
JTV wrote:The exact number of Finnish made assault rifles is probably classified - at least I have not seen it anywhere. But the estimates run around 300,000+ (less than 400,000 though).
The smallest figure I have seen is 275.000 pcs but I guess it lacks the latest model(s). Their total number is supposed to something close to what you said.

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