Does anyone know when the 7th Medium Regiment upgraded it's guns from 4.5" to 5.5"?
I think that it was before 23/10/42.
7th Medium Regiment RA & others!
7th Medium Regiment RA & others!
Last edited by David W on 21 Jun 2007, 11:03, edited 1 time in total.
Not exactly what you're after, but ...
64th Mdm Regt was re-equipped in April/May 1942.
211th Bty got the 4.5-in, while 212th Bty got the 5.5-in.
Prior to that they'd been using US 155mm Hows (made in 1916) from early 1942, and before that 6-in Hows.
They remained on the 4.5/5.5 org till the end of the war.
64th Mdm Regt was re-equipped in April/May 1942.
211th Bty got the 4.5-in, while 212th Bty got the 5.5-in.
Prior to that they'd been using US 155mm Hows (made in 1916) from early 1942, and before that 6-in Hows.
They remained on the 4.5/5.5 org till the end of the war.
Prior to re-arming with the modern guns, they had US 155mms (see above post) for about 6 months it seems, and prior to that they had 6-in Hows (again, see above post).
I have a copy of "A Well-known Excellence: British Artillery and an Artilleryman in World War Two" by Denis Falvey, who served in 64th from start to finish, and is pretty much his bio combined with a history of that unit. Unfortunately, in some places it is a little light on details (eg, exactly when the 6-ins were traded for the 155s). Howewver, it's flitting around the Med is quite well covered. I'll have another trawl through and get you a list of movements. In gross outline, from memory, they were in the Egypt, Greece, Crete (IIRC, as infantillery not gunners), Egypt, Lybia (CRUSADER), Egypt, Lybia, Tunisia, England, France (D+2 or 3), Belgium, Arnhem (the 4.5-in bty fired at max range in spt of 1 AB Div), Germany.
More later.
I have a copy of "A Well-known Excellence: British Artillery and an Artilleryman in World War Two" by Denis Falvey, who served in 64th from start to finish, and is pretty much his bio combined with a history of that unit. Unfortunately, in some places it is a little light on details (eg, exactly when the 6-ins were traded for the 155s). Howewver, it's flitting around the Med is quite well covered. I'll have another trawl through and get you a list of movements. In gross outline, from memory, they were in the Egypt, Greece, Crete (IIRC, as infantillery not gunners), Egypt, Lybia (CRUSADER), Egypt, Lybia, Tunisia, England, France (D+2 or 3), Belgium, Arnhem (the 4.5-in bty fired at max range in spt of 1 AB Div), Germany.
More later.
All right, in outline form:
Jan 1940 - in the UK, equipped with 6-in Hows
Jun 1940 - UK, equipped with 60-prs
Nov 1940 - depart UK
Late Dec 1940 - arrive Egypt
Jan 1941 - 212 Bty to Abyssinia
Jan 1941 - 211 Bty to Tobruk, first action in assault on Tobruk
6 Mar 1941 - 211 Bty to Greece
24/25 Apr 1941 - 211 Bty spikes guns and evacuates Greece
Late Apr 1941 - 211 Bty to Crete as infantry, but also receive 4 x Italian 75mm.
Late May 1941 - 211 Bty evacuates Crete, back to Egypt
Jun 1941 - 212 Bty to Syria
Jul 1941 - Regt reunited in Egypt, very short of eqpt (esp for 211 Bty)
~Aug 1941 - 211 Bty receives 6-in Hows (unclear what 212 Bty has, possibly still 60-prs?). 6-in How is considered to be too short ranged to be used on ops in Western Desert, so Regt is sent to Mersa Matruh as garrison.
Mid-Dec 1941 - Regt moves up to Bardia to take part in siege of that place after Op CRUSADER.
Early Jan 1942 - Regt involved in siege of Halfaya posn
Mid-Jan 1942 - Regt moves to Damascus. While there 6-in How replaced by US 155mm Hows (1916)
Apr/May 1942 - Regt re-equipped with modern guns: 4.5-in for 211 Bty, 5.5-in for 212 Bty.
12 Jun 1942 - Regt ordered back to Desert following fiasco at Gazala
15 Jun 1942 - Regt in Delta drawing stores to be made up to full WE
17 Jun 1942 - Regt at Sidi Barrani
18 Jun 1942 - Regt at Halfaya
20 Jun 1942 - Regt engages enemy from Halfaya posn
Jun 1942 - May 1943 - Regt continuously in action for remainder of NA campaign
24 Jul 1943 - Regt lands in Sicily with new guns issued at end of NA campaign (same 4.5-in/5.5-in split)
28 Aug - 211 Bty (4.5-in) engages German 170mm bty in Reggio across Messina Straits.
3 Sep 1943 - Regt engaged in fireplan sptting assault across Messina Straits. Regt does NOT move to mainland Italy.
Oct 1943 - embark for UK
Dec 1943 - disembark in Liverpool
Jan 1940 - in the UK, equipped with 6-in Hows
Jun 1940 - UK, equipped with 60-prs
Nov 1940 - depart UK
Late Dec 1940 - arrive Egypt
Jan 1941 - 212 Bty to Abyssinia
Jan 1941 - 211 Bty to Tobruk, first action in assault on Tobruk
6 Mar 1941 - 211 Bty to Greece
24/25 Apr 1941 - 211 Bty spikes guns and evacuates Greece
Late Apr 1941 - 211 Bty to Crete as infantry, but also receive 4 x Italian 75mm.
Late May 1941 - 211 Bty evacuates Crete, back to Egypt
Jun 1941 - 212 Bty to Syria
Jul 1941 - Regt reunited in Egypt, very short of eqpt (esp for 211 Bty)
~Aug 1941 - 211 Bty receives 6-in Hows (unclear what 212 Bty has, possibly still 60-prs?). 6-in How is considered to be too short ranged to be used on ops in Western Desert, so Regt is sent to Mersa Matruh as garrison.
Mid-Dec 1941 - Regt moves up to Bardia to take part in siege of that place after Op CRUSADER.
Early Jan 1942 - Regt involved in siege of Halfaya posn
Mid-Jan 1942 - Regt moves to Damascus. While there 6-in How replaced by US 155mm Hows (1916)
Apr/May 1942 - Regt re-equipped with modern guns: 4.5-in for 211 Bty, 5.5-in for 212 Bty.
12 Jun 1942 - Regt ordered back to Desert following fiasco at Gazala
15 Jun 1942 - Regt in Delta drawing stores to be made up to full WE
17 Jun 1942 - Regt at Sidi Barrani
18 Jun 1942 - Regt at Halfaya
20 Jun 1942 - Regt engages enemy from Halfaya posn
Jun 1942 - May 1943 - Regt continuously in action for remainder of NA campaign
24 Jul 1943 - Regt lands in Sicily with new guns issued at end of NA campaign (same 4.5-in/5.5-in split)
28 Aug - 211 Bty (4.5-in) engages German 170mm bty in Reggio across Messina Straits.
3 Sep 1943 - Regt engaged in fireplan sptting assault across Messina Straits. Regt does NOT move to mainland Italy.
Oct 1943 - embark for UK
Dec 1943 - disembark in Liverpool
Ya, but this is Mdm Arty remember, not Fd, which is what the Bishop and Priest were. Also, the range on the Bishop was recognised almost immediately as being too short, and they were removed from ops as soon as possible (which wasn't till Sicily, but still ...).David W wrote:The only bit that doesn't ring true, is this....6 Mile range! More than 4.5" Howitzer, & same as Bishop & Priest.6-in How is considered to be too short ranged to be used on ops in Western Desert, so Regt is sent to Mersa Matruh as garrison.
Strange
Also, 64th Mdm were never equipped with the 4.5-in How. In May 42 they got the 4.5-in Gun-How (the one that looks a lot like the 5.5-in) which had a massive range. Incidentally, the US 155mm (WWI version) was also considered too short ranged - pretty much the same as the 6-in - and the only reason they seem to have got it at all was due to a shortage of 6-in ammo.
I'll have a look for 67th, but I'm not confident. T'was just a coinky dink that Falvey was in 64th and wrote a book. Which dates are you specifically interested in again (month-year to month-year)?
Cheers
Jon
Hokay, the following is mostly from Farndales "Years of Defeat" (which only covers through to the end of 41) with addl input from various places.
64 Mdm
24 July 1941 - Regt reunited in Sarafand, then moved to Beirut. 211 Bty equipped with 8 x 6-in.
Nov 41 - Regt located at Moascar in Ismalia.
26 Dec 41 - Regt at Mersa Matruh
After 212 Bty went off to Abyssinia, 64 Mdm Regt was made up of 211, 234 (8 x 4.5-in How), and 355 Mdm Btys for Op COMPASS.
For Greece & Crete the Regt consisted of 211 Mdm Bty and 234 Mdm Bty (8 x 4.5-in How). After return to Egypt 234 Bty went back to 68 Mdm Regt, and 212 Bty rejoined 64 Mdm (as above). On Crete 234 Bty had "13 x Italian Field Guns"
67 Mdm Regt
31 Dec 1941 - Involved in attack on Bardia (that's all I have for them)
7 Mdm
Already in Egypt when war broke out.
25/26 Bty equipped with 60-pr (iron-tyred, wooden wheeled)
27/28 Bty equipped with 6-in (iron-tyred, wooden wheeled)
Involved throughout COMPASS, although weapons were falling to bits (eg cracked trails)
Mar-41 to Greece
22 Apr 41 - guns spiked in Greece
25 Apr 41 - evacuate Greece
26 Apr 41 - land in Crete, acting as inf (though they may have got some Italian guns at some point)
29 May 41 - evacuate Crete
Jun 41 - Syria, with 6-in How
Jun 41 - 27/28 Bty involved in BATTLEAXE (under cmd 4 Ind Div)
Nov 41 - Regt involved in CRUSADER
Jan42 - Jun 42 - dunno. I suspect it was during this period they would have been re-equipped with modern guns, a'la 64 Mdm Regt
Jun-42 - May 43 - fought continuously in Western Desert. For quite some time after the Gazala-Tobruk fiasco 7 and 64 were the ONLY mdm regts in the Western Desert.
7 Mdm also fought in Sicily
Oh, and the perennial recommendation to check the NZ OHs (in particular "2 NZ Div Arty", "The Battle for Egypt", and "Alam Halfa and Alamein") and the Australian OHs, all of which are available on-line. I haven't looked into these ones since you can do that as well as I
64 Mdm
24 July 1941 - Regt reunited in Sarafand, then moved to Beirut. 211 Bty equipped with 8 x 6-in.
Nov 41 - Regt located at Moascar in Ismalia.
26 Dec 41 - Regt at Mersa Matruh
After 212 Bty went off to Abyssinia, 64 Mdm Regt was made up of 211, 234 (8 x 4.5-in How), and 355 Mdm Btys for Op COMPASS.
For Greece & Crete the Regt consisted of 211 Mdm Bty and 234 Mdm Bty (8 x 4.5-in How). After return to Egypt 234 Bty went back to 68 Mdm Regt, and 212 Bty rejoined 64 Mdm (as above). On Crete 234 Bty had "13 x Italian Field Guns"
67 Mdm Regt
31 Dec 1941 - Involved in attack on Bardia (that's all I have for them)
7 Mdm
Already in Egypt when war broke out.
25/26 Bty equipped with 60-pr (iron-tyred, wooden wheeled)
27/28 Bty equipped with 6-in (iron-tyred, wooden wheeled)
Involved throughout COMPASS, although weapons were falling to bits (eg cracked trails)
Mar-41 to Greece
22 Apr 41 - guns spiked in Greece
25 Apr 41 - evacuate Greece
26 Apr 41 - land in Crete, acting as inf (though they may have got some Italian guns at some point)
29 May 41 - evacuate Crete
Jun 41 - Syria, with 6-in How
Jun 41 - 27/28 Bty involved in BATTLEAXE (under cmd 4 Ind Div)
Nov 41 - Regt involved in CRUSADER
Jan42 - Jun 42 - dunno. I suspect it was during this period they would have been re-equipped with modern guns, a'la 64 Mdm Regt
Jun-42 - May 43 - fought continuously in Western Desert. For quite some time after the Gazala-Tobruk fiasco 7 and 64 were the ONLY mdm regts in the Western Desert.
7 Mdm also fought in Sicily
Oh, and the perennial recommendation to check the NZ OHs (in particular "2 NZ Div Arty", "The Battle for Egypt", and "Alam Halfa and Alamein") and the Australian OHs, all of which are available on-line. I haven't looked into these ones since you can do that as well as I
Right. Again from Farndale.
First off, a correction. Above I said
Now, 68 Mdm Regt:
Jan 1941 - as above, 234 Bty under command 7 Mdm for attack on Bardia during COMPASS. THis bty subsequently goes to Greece - and Crete - with 64 Mdm Regt.
Dec 1940 - Regt goes to Ethopia with it's own 233 Mdm Bty and 212 Mdm Bty from 64 Mdm Bty (yes, they swapped a battery, no I don't know why they did that. Expediency, I expect, bought about by overly strained resources)
Apr 1941 - Regt (with 233 and 212 Btys) moves back to Egypt and comes under command 4 Ind Div
Jun 1941 - Regt reunited (233 and 234 Btys) after Crete
Jan 1942 - Regt attacks Bardia a second time, this time as part of the final stages of CRUSADER
Jun 1942 - Regt lost at Tobruk
??? - 1943 - Regt reformed (in England?)
First off, a correction. Above I said
That was incorrect. 234 (8 x 4.5-in How) and 355 Mdm Btys were under command 7th Mdm Regt for COMPASS, not 64 Mdm.After 212 Bty went off to Abyssinia, 64 Mdm Regt was made up of 211, 234 (8 x 4.5-in How), and 355 Mdm Btys for Op COMPASS.
Now, 68 Mdm Regt:
Jan 1941 - as above, 234 Bty under command 7 Mdm for attack on Bardia during COMPASS. THis bty subsequently goes to Greece - and Crete - with 64 Mdm Regt.
Dec 1940 - Regt goes to Ethopia with it's own 233 Mdm Bty and 212 Mdm Bty from 64 Mdm Bty (yes, they swapped a battery, no I don't know why they did that. Expediency, I expect, bought about by overly strained resources)
Apr 1941 - Regt (with 233 and 212 Btys) moves back to Egypt and comes under command 4 Ind Div
Jun 1941 - Regt reunited (233 and 234 Btys) after Crete
Jan 1942 - Regt attacks Bardia a second time, this time as part of the final stages of CRUSADER
Jun 1942 - Regt lost at Tobruk
??? - 1943 - Regt reformed (in England?)