Bomber Command in 1939 ???

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phylo_roadking
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#16

Post by phylo_roadking » 05 Oct 2007, 04:15

But in the meantime -

B.21/35 "Twin-engine medium bomber" (written for Whitley II production order)

B.1/35 OR.19 "Twin-engine medium bomber" (resulted in Vickers Warwick)

B.27/35 "Twin-engine medium bomber" (written for Heyford III production order)

B.20/36 "Twin-engine medium bomber" (written for Whitley III production order)

P.13/36 OR.41 "Twin Vulture-engined medium bomber for world-wide use" (resulted EVENTUALLY in the Manchester)

B.9/32 OR.5 "Twin-engine medium day bomber with appreciably higher performance than predecessors" (created slot for the Hampden and the "Vickers Crecy" which morphed into the Wellington

B.12/36 OR.40 "Four-engine heavy bomber" (resulted in Striling)

B.1/39 "Four-engined heavy bomber" (resulted in Lancaster)

Just a sample, but you can see the designations were actually in there right at the specification and design stage.

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RAF bombers 1939

#17

Post by Bessar » 05 Oct 2007, 06:53

I didn't find a figure for the Wellington, but according to the Putnam series volumes on Armstrong Whitworth and Handley Page, the RAF had 196 Whitley and 212 Hampden on strength on September 3, 1939. I would imagine Wellington strength to be about the same as for the Hampden, c. 200. :D


Bessar
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British bombers (2)

#18

Post by Bessar » 06 Oct 2007, 03:10

After visiting a lot of websites and studying the Wellington material in the Putnam volume on Vickers Aircraft, I am going to stick my neck out and say the number of Wellingtons on charge with the RAF on 9/3/39 was 183.

196 Whitley
212 Hampden
183 Wellington

gives a total of 591 twin-engine medium and "heavy" bombers on charge at the outbreak of war.

:wink:

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Andy H
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#19

Post by Andy H » 06 Oct 2007, 17:19

B.21/35 "Twin-engine medium bomber" (written for Whitley II production order)
Hi Phylo

They are Medium bombers, but were they actually viewed by the RAF High Command as such. The reason I ask is that i have seen various references where the word Heavy was used in relation to them in the early war years.

Regards

Andy H

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Andy H
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Re: British bombers (2)

#20

Post by Andy H » 06 Oct 2007, 17:32

Bessar wrote:After visiting a lot of websites and studying the Wellington material in the Putnam volume on Vickers Aircraft, I am going to stick my neck out and say the number of Wellingtons on charge with the RAF on 9/3/39 was 183
Hi Bessar

Terraine only gives a total of 5 Wellington outfitted squadrons, whilst Niehorsters sit lists 7 plus one Training Sqn-: 9, 99, 149, 115, 38, 37 and 214 Sqns.

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Andy H

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#21

Post by phylo_roadking » 06 Oct 2007, 22:43

Andy, the answer is yes, they were already looking forward to the delivery of the Heavies and were already aware prototypes existed. RAF pilots in mufti on detached duty were acting as test pilots, people like Mutt Summers etc., so it wasn't as if Air Ministry projects were being developed in secret from the RAF or anything like that. The only deffinition in terms that Bomber Command was making in the absence of the heavies in service was between the "day bomber" force and the "night bomber" force. The difference in operational reference terms and planning ops based on capabilities, range,bombloads etc. ONLY needed to appear when there WERE both Medium and Heavy types actually IN service. But the difference in reference terms in all other conversation was definitely there - for these guys were sitting drumming their fingers on the table waiting....

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Re: British bombers (2)

#22

Post by maxs75 » 17 Oct 2007, 10:14

Andy H wrote:
Bessar wrote:After visiting a lot of websites and studying the Wellington material in the Putnam volume on Vickers Aircraft, I am going to stick my neck out and say the number of Wellingtons on charge with the RAF on 9/3/39 was 183
Hi Bessar

Terraine only gives a total of 5 Wellington outfitted squadrons, whilst Niehorsters sit lists 7 plus one Training Sqn-: 9, 99, 149, 115, 38, 37 and 214 Sqns.

Regards

Andy H
No 9 Wellington from early 1939, ex Heyford; Lancaster sept. 1942
No. 37 W. from june 1939, ex Harrow; Middle east nov. 40
No. 38 W. from jan. 39, ex Hendon; Middle east nov. 40
No. 99 W. from nov. 38, ex Heyford; Far east 1942
No. 115 W. from june 1939, ex Harrow; Lanc. march 1943
No. 149 W. from july 1939, ex Heyford; Stirling nov. 1941
No. 214 W. from june 1939, ex Harrow; Stirling april 1942
No. 215 W. from july 1939, but Harrow till dec. 1939. Training squadron and became no. 11 OTU in april 1940.

No. 148 W. and Anson from april 1939 (Group pool squadron), ex Heyford
No. 75 W. and Anson from july 1939 (Group pool squadron), ex Harrow
both became no. 15 OTU

Max

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tigre
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Re: Bomber Command in 1939 ???

#23

Post by tigre » 14 Jan 2016, 00:09

Hello to all :D; a little query.............................

Vickers-Wellesley in 1939.
In Sept 1938 BC OoB was

17 Fairey Battle Sqns
16 Bristol Blenhiem Sqns
9 Armstrong-Whitworth Whitley Sqns
5 Handley Page Harrow Sqns
2 Vickers Wellesley Sqns
I tend to think no ... but did the Vickers-Wellesley see action over Europe? TIA. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Attachments
image006.jpg
Vickers-Wellesley Mk I of the 14 Squadron seen here in flight over Palestine 1939......................................
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/vickers-wellesley-mk-is-of-14-squadron-in-flight-palestine-news-photo/159137549
image006.jpg (33.81 KiB) Viewed 542 times

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Pips
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Re: Bomber Command in 1939 ???

#24

Post by Pips » 14 Jan 2016, 02:28

Good grief. Imagine having to go to war in a Wellesley! You would certainly feel hard done by.

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Re: Bomber Command in 1939 ???

#25

Post by pugsville » 14 Jan 2016, 02:32

The Wellesley photo is that a drop tank? if not what it it?

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Re: Bomber Command in 1939 ???

#26

Post by Orwell1984 » 14 Jan 2016, 07:34

pugsville wrote:The Wellesley photo is that a drop tank? if not what it it?
Bomb containers.

From the wiki on the aircraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Wellesley
As it was not known how the geodetic structure could cope with being disrupted by a bomb bay, the Wellesley's bomb load was carried in two streamlined panniers under the wings
And the Wellesley saw action in the East African campaign. Not in Europe.

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Re: Bomber Command in 1939 ???

#27

Post by Helmut0815 » 16 Jan 2016, 12:43

What about the obsolescent types Handley Page Harrow or Bristol Bombay, did they see (limited) action as bombers in Europe or Africa?

regards


Helmut

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tigre
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Re: Bomber Command in 1939 ???

#28

Post by tigre » 16 Jan 2016, 14:39

Thanks Orwell1984 :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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Re: Bomber Command in 1939 ???

#29

Post by Orwell1984 » 16 Jan 2016, 19:44

Helmut0815 wrote:What about the obsolescent types Handley Page Harrow or Bristol Bombay, did they see (limited) action as bombers in Europe or Africa?

regards


Helmut
Harrow was used as a transport with one unique exception. 6 Harrows were used to deploy Long Aerial Mines with 93 Squadron during the Night Blitz.

Image

Bombays of 216 Squadron operated as bombers in the Western Desert in 1940 before reverting to transports when more suitable aircraft (Wellingtons) arrived.

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