British Portee guns

[YAN]

Hi, I have been re-searching the British 8th army and I have found thet they had three types of portee weapons,
2pdr
6pdr
40mm Bofors
has anyone got any data eg: road & cross country speeds ect.
Thanks Yan.

[Alanmccoubrey]

Yan, The 2 pdr was porteed on several different trucks, it started on a 15 cwt, then 30 cwt and finally a 3 tonner so they varied. The 6 pdr was always on a 3 tonner such as the Austin K5/YW or Bedford QL. The 40mm Bofors was nevr porteed, there was howver an SP version based on either a Morris C9 or CMP Ford F60B. I'm sure there will be sites with the performances of these vehicles.

[phylo_roadking]

They also portee'd the 25pdr. Classic Military Vehicles had a couple of pics a few months back - although that one had been debated for years. They also a few months back produced a pic of a late-war prototype "official" portee for the 25pdr, a one-off created from a QL, a half-flatbed for serving the gun, and a strange girder mount that accomodated the gun and its ground anchor. THAT one wasn't developed further LOL

[David W]

The porteed Bofors in North Africa was in fact the 37mm Anti tank gun. However I believe that it largely pre-dated the formation of the Eighth Army. It was on a 15cwt Chevvy If I remember correctly.

The Deacon was an AEC Matador mounted 8th Army 6 Pdr, but I suppose that technically it was self propelled rather than porteed.


Sorry, no idea of speeds though.

[Ironmachine]

This may be of interest (from http://www.lrdg.de/vehicles3.htm):

From the earliest days of LRDG, there had been various attempts to equip patrols with more firepower than was provided by the 37mm Bofors A/T gun. As a result, March 1941 saw the addition of the Royal Artillery Section to LRDG, the section consisting of an infantry gun porteed on a Mack truck and a light tank and commanded by Paul 'Blitz' Eitzen. The Section was used only once in LRDG's attack on the Italian fort at Gtafia. While the heavy artillery proved to be very effective against the Italian fortifications, transporting the heavy guns through the desert proved to be pretty difficult - the truck constantly bogged down and slowed the whole patrol, on the way back it finally broke down and had to be abandoned. After this short episode, the whole concept of carrying around heavy field guns was judged faulty and the Section was disbanded.
Porteed guns - Upon the Section's inception, it was first equipped with a 4.5in Howitzer. This gun was porteed on a Mack NR4, but the combination proved way too heavy to be of any use. The howitzer was consequently handed over to Leclerc's Free French Army, who presumably put it to better use, and the experiments continued with a 25pounder. It was this gun that was carried to Gtafia and caused so much trouble on the way.

[phylo_roadking]

David, I've one paper source for the AEC Matador 0853 "Deacon" that says 25mph (40km/h), and a couple of online sources for the same speed...but notes that it had poor cross-country performance. Hence possibly the Wiki entry top speed of only 19mph; then again, the Wiki entry DOES use a very odd source! The AEC 6-cylinder diesel only produced 95hp ...while with its crew of four, and 24 rounds of ammo - it weighed twelve tons!



Indeed, the Deacon wasn't a "portee" as much as a "self-propelled gun" - albeit an ugly, underpowered and poor one! It only served for 6-8 months; the closing months of North Africa in 1942 through to the end of the campaign in Tunisia in 1943. ASAP they were offloaded onto the Turks!

Interestingly - I've just had a look at data for the "parent" AEC Matador and Bedford QL - the QL's 6-cylinder Bedford petrol engine made even LESS power, at only 72 bhp... but was geared to make 38mph from that. The Matador, being from the start a low-geared gun tractor for pulling trailed guns...and not necessarily always hard ground ...was geared to make 36mph from it's 95 bhp.

Wiki also has this nice image of an Australian 2pdr Portee on a 15CWT lorry - a Morris C8 "GS" (general service) 15CWT?



Yan, have you seen this page? http://www.afrikakorps.org/antitankgunportees.htm

As for vehicles used, laden weights etc....have you seen this on WW2talk?

[Alanmccoubrey]

Wiki is wrong that is a CMP Ford truck, longer than the Morris.

[phylo_roadking]

Alan, I did wonder; the "bonnet" seemed to slope noticably far more than the Morris family.

[David W]

Wiki is wrong

Isn't that a direct translation of Wikipedia!

[phylo_roadking]

Let's be fair - even the Curate's Egg had its "good bits"

[YAN]

Sorry I am late replying I have been away, but thanks for all your replys and help, Yan.